Although I don't normally go for PC revisionism, I heard the above song the other day and listened to the line that starts "pardon me boy.." I think a reasonable person doesn't go out to intentionally offend people, especially paying customers, and I think to somebody who's ancestors were on the receiving end of Jim Crow and the indignities suffered by some (most? all?) pullman porters, that might cut deeply.

Occasionally, tourist roads have musicians on board-and this is among the best known train songs. Do/Would you change that line, perhaps insert "guy" or some other monosyllabic general interrogatory?

superheater@rrmail.com

As a musician, no. It is considered to be one of the Glenn Miller standards and making a change to either the lyrics or the music alters the piece, destroying the piece created by the composer. One wouldn't alter the chord structure in Tuxedo Junction simply because one doesn't like it or thinks that it can be improved. For that matter, very few arrangements of Chattanooga Choo Choo that I have heard completely follow the original Glenn Miller score.

The other reason that I would not change the wording is that it is a copyrighted song with a valid copyright. Not a good idea to mess with a copyrighted work.

awalker1829@yahoo.com

Also, changing the wording alters the historical context of the song. Like it or not, society sanctioned the relegation of colored persons to second class status at that time. To erase all signs of that in the spirit of political correctness would be a slap in the face to those who worked to gain equal rights during the time from Reconstruction to the 1960s. Those who forget history are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past.

awalker1829@yahoo.com

> To erase all signs of that in the
> spirit of political correctness would be a
> slap in the face to those who worked to gain
> equal rights during the time from
> Reconstruction to the 1960s.

That's why I normally despise PC Bravo Sierra- But here I'm just trying to distinguish between making people "feel good" and "not feel bad".



superheater@rrmail.com

> Although I don't normally go for PC
> revisionism, I heard the above song the
> other day and listened to the line that
> starts "pardon me boy.." I think a
> reasonable person doesn't go out to
> intentionally offend people, especially
> paying customers, and I think to somebody
> who's ancestors were on the receiving end of
> Jim Crow and the indignities suffered by
> some (most? all?) pullman porters, that
> might cut deeply.

How about "Pardon me person(s), is that the Chattanooga people transportation device?"
Better also take out those lines about " a certain party at the station,ribbons and lace" and all that. Too sexist in this day and age. I am, of course, being sarcastic.
Glenn Miller delivered some great songs.They are all just fine the way they were written.
mw


p_michael_warren@yahoo.com

Superheater,

Two things to consider here. Glen Miller and his Big Band were great writers and performers, the song should be the way they did it.

Further, a racest remark is an opening to tell the story of the Pullman Porters, who were most ofton black people. Tell their story, don't dodge a difficult issue.

For example the National Park Service is about to open a new Visitor Center at Manzanar National Historic Site. The story of what happened to Japanese-American citizans is not bbeing pushed under the rug, but the story will now be told to future Americans.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

In response to the NHS remark, Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum has worked to be as up front and factual in presenting the relationship between the railroads and their colored patrons. TVRM has two passenger coaches in service that were partitioned "Jim Crow" coaches during the segregation era. One (TVRM 906) was retired from service prior to desegregation and retained the partition and other associated interior fittings. The other (TVRM 907) was stripped of the partition but retained the original lavs. Both cars have interpretive placards located at either end of the car. The placards give a brief synopsis of the origin behind the term "Jim Crow" and how it came to apply to segregation. When 906 was put in for restoration, it was restored to its segregation era appearance. Anything else would be a disservice to our history and the public.

awalker1829@yahoo.com

> How about "Pardon me person(s), is that
> the Chattanooga people transportation
> device?"

don'tmakemedoit, don'tmakemedoit...........

Too late. >:-]

I tell the story of the time Roy Rogers was attacked by a rabid cat who set to clawing and gnawing his fresh pair of rattlesnake boots. As Roy grabbed the yowling feline by the tail and held it aloft, Dale Evans came riding up, looked the situation over, and asked.........

"Pardon me, Roy--is that the cat that chewed your new shoes?"

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Further along in the first verse is the line, "boy, you can give me a shine." Since the singer was told "track 29," it is more likely he was asking a shoe shiner (then called a shoe shine boy) where to find the train. He would not have met a Porter until he had found the train.

Shoe shine boys often were actual boys, but I suspect a station with a Track 29 would have had an adult-staffed shoe shine facility.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Every once in a while this group makes me laugh out loud.

It's a great group - a little weird - but great.

> don'tmakemedoit, don'tmakemedoit...........

> Too late. >:-]

> I tell the story of the time Roy Rogers was
> attacked by a rabid cat who set to clawing
> and gnawing his fresh pair of rattlesnake
> boots. As Roy grabbed the yowling feline by
> the tail and held it aloft, Dale Evans came
> riding up, looked the situation over, and
> asked.........

> "Pardon me, Roy--is that the cat that
> chewed your new shoes?"

OK - you should be banned from the board for 2 hours for posting that! ;-)

G

greg@skittercreek.com

>Neither political correctness nor revisionist history will change the historical facts of life back in those days. Wonderful times, wonderful music, wonderful steam powered passenger trains. Let's get back to that.

fitzrr@pioneer.net

Ever hear the song "Chattanooga Shoe Shine Boy"???

I think it comes from around the same era as "Chattanooga Choo Choo"

G. Mark

Look at our Revamped Website
aw90@comcast.net

Good question...

I have enjoyed hearing that song many times and never really put the words to some sort of context wherein the lyrcist was addressing someone of an ethnic origin that had been, or was being, oppressed, or belittled.

For me, I never ever considered that calling someone "boy" was a racial slur. I happen to be white (and kind'a pasty at that), and I remember being called "boy" by the adults in my neighborhood when I was a kid. "Boy" being a pronoun that describes a male child as opposed to being a girl or an adult of either sex. (I always thought that girls had cooties and being called "boy" was a compliment!)

I remember seeing a "Shoeshine Boy" at the Indianapolis Union Station and he was as pasty as I am, and he was called "boy" to his face, and he seemed to appreciate the words (and the tips).

BUT... I suspose that if the words to the song were; "Pardon me Honky, is this the..." I might be a bit uncomfortable, even if the person singing it were just singing the "historic" words to some great music.

It might help to resolve the question if the context that the listener is perceiving were taken into consideration...

Why are the "patrons" at the tourist spot (railroad) listening to someone sing that song???

If the patrons are there to perceive the "historic" context, then the song should be sung as written AND put in that historic context.

If the patrons are there for relaxation/family entertainment, then the song "might" disturb those that are sensitive to the words.

That is what I perceive the question to be about and most of the replies here have totally sidestepped it or blown it off as unworthy of consideration... which is a bad thing for a public museum to do. Just because you see nothing wrong with it doesn't mean that someone won't be insulted by it. And this IS one of the things, in today's society, that should be at least considered thoughtfully.

But then, how many black persons, today that is, are sensitive to someone singing an old song that contains the word "boy"?

How many (of any racial/ethnic orgin) would recognize the meaning of that word in the context of the song? (I had never thought of it until the question was raised here.)

For that matter, how many (of any racial/ethnic origin) would actually be listening to the words in the first place?

--

From MY viewpoint... I would very much prefer that there not be any music at all...

Why???

Because I would rather hear the steam locomotive and the whistle and some bellering singer strumming a gheetaaar is quite unwelcome in that context.

(Like the PBS program about the U.P. Challenger... every time the engine got to working good, the singer began bellowing about it going home and TOTALLY RUINED "my" enjoyment of the program.)

Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough
CMBY RY

> How about "Pardon me person(s), is that
> the Chattanooga people transportation
> device?"
> Better also take out those lines about
> " a certain party at the
> station,ribbons and lace" and all that.
> Too sexist in this day and age. I am, of
> course, being sarcastic.
> Glenn Miller delivered some great songs.They
> are all just fine the way they were written.
> mw
There is no reason to change the word, unless of course it is meant to offend someone.

LL675@aol.com