What will be pushing/pulling with the York #17?

Bummer.

I strongly suggest that those involved, and everybody else involved in the preserving of an operating line, read the decision very carefully before commenting on its merits. There is quite a bit to be learned here.
GME

Thanks - enforcing the idea the people need to actually know what they are commenting on will raise the level of discourse and make it mercifully very much shorter.
dave

I'll admit that I read through it. But I'm tired and some of it may or may not have gone over my head. I'm hoping that someone here could provide a short(er) sort of "bullet-point" list of the main points of interest...could also be helpful...

This is sad. The amount of money in contention is well under half a million dollars. I just don't understand why they are unable to raise this amount. I do recognize the fact of the bad state of the economy.

Raise in excess of $350,000? I understand completely, and that's just to get to "zero." Restoring the line and equipment, etc., would be costs on top of that amount. It's quite likely it would be a long time, if ever, before the line could overcome its start-up costs and become self-sustaining, and until that day arrived it would continue to need infusions of cash.

Hindsight's 20/20 and all that, but seeing how this fate was inevitable, couldn't they have scrapped the place themselves to come up with the cash in order to avoid adverse abandonment? There's about $250,000 in rails there not including OTM, less the cost of removal. And maybe they could have come up with the remainder by selling or scrapping other equipment? At least then, they'd still have the benefits and protections that come with being a railroad.

I am aware that at least one preservation-related entity made an offer to buy the rails with that very idea in mind, as it's basically impossible to find decent 70- to 80-pound rail these days at any price and they had a "restore the missing track" project in mind elsewhere that needed lighter rail. There may have even been an offer to trade 100-120 pound rail for the 70-80, I'm not sure--I know I suggested that to someone eying the rails.

Understandably, this was supposedly greeted with the same kind of reception you'd get if you offered to butcher up the dying family pet for sausages. Pitchforks may have been involved.

I'm deathly afraid that, as much as I want to see this line survive, that may have been their last real chance at survival. The worst-case scenario would be seeing the rails cut up and no track OR railroad.

Now, if you read between the lines of the STB decision, there's still one LAST chance for something like this to be arranged.........

In possibly the first sign of capitulation, I received, forwarded secondhand, an e-mail informing some that the privately-owned 1941 Reading caboose, 92891, stored in Stewartstown is up for immediate sale. "We would like to see our 72 year old caboose go to a good home, but if that is not possible we will have to do the unthinkable and scrap it."

If you want particulars, PM or e-mail me off list and I'll forward particulars.

I had to ponder on this all day, first is, the Estate does NOT own the railroad.
From what I can figure is they cannot call for the abandonement of the railroad.
The issue is simply money, a payment back for a loan, that is ALL the estate can do or try to. If they try to call for abandonement and then decide to go out and rip rails out for scrap, this goes into grand theft and Larceny. Reminds me of the East Broad Top rail thieves.

Stewartstown better keep an eye out for anybody trying to rip rail out.

I was trying to think of an amicable solution to all this. Some of the line need repair correct? The line is best to try to get control of their future, first is to pay back the loan asap. Is the line non-profit now? Or what gives? Anyways one way to raise money is to sell of some rail to raise funds then at some time you can relay that rail, look for rail donations, go over the bad areas of the line and repair it where needed the way they need it repaired.
The loss of rail would be temporary.

But if the estate tries to scrap the line, they would be held responsible for it, the Stewartstown would have the only right to do the rail removal, and they would have to be paid for doing that. How much does it cost to remove a railroad vs the scrap price?
If you ask me the costs balance each other out, and you make no money.

I think the estate has gone beyond its power trying to abandon the line.

Did you read a different ruling? The problem all along is that the railroad has not had the cash to satisfy the debt and has not been able to raise it. This did not even begin until the Estate had tried for some time unsuccessfully to collect.

Railroad Abandonment is about Common Carrier authority. It is not about property rights. Common Carrier authority provides a Federal Shield against State and local regulation that would interfere with interstate commerce. It is not an absolute shield and the board has become somewhat more strict in recent years, partially because of outright abuses but also because of operations which really are not common carriers. The sad truth is that no matter what its intent is the Stewartstown has not hauled freight or passengers in common carriage since my grown-with-two-children-in-school granddaughter was in Kindergarten.

Unless the Stewartstown appeals and (Unlikely to Highly Unlikely) the Circuit Court reverses the Board's decision the railroad's Common Carrier authority is gone. This allows the Estate to now move in state court to seize the assets in order to satisfy the debt. The reason that I rate the success of an appeal as between Unlikely and Highly Unlikely rather than Not In Your Next Six Lifetimes is that Commissioner Begeman dissented.

The scrapping, if it ever happens will not be for a while yet, and and not before the state court process has run its course. One of the few good things in this debacle is that the both the railroad and the Estate are domiciled in Pennsylvania so there is no diversity of jurisdiction issue to resolve.

GME

Shouldn't the STB be going to heroic lengths to keep our rail network intact? Or is that an another agency I'm thinking of...

SH

I am curious if you would be as adamant that a railroad that does not connect to anything and has not carried any revenue freight in Interstate Commerce for decades must have its Common Carrier status preserved no matter what if the money were owed to you?

Of course the action is being taken to satisfy a private interest. The payment of your wages is being done to satisfy a private interest. Interstate commerce exists because of private interests. Public interest is nothing more than an amalgam of private interests and, since we are mere mortals, of course we disagree on the fine points. Every commercial venture including railroads is being run to satisfy private interests.

I will even go so far as to disagree with Commissioner Begeman (not for the first time) and state that I believe that there is a clear public interest in the Bucks County Historical Society receiving the monies due it and that that public interest is on balance greater than any public interest in maintaining common carrier authority for what is effectively a voluntary, other than non- profit, preservation project. Other than the fervent hopes of its supporters, the Stewartstown is no more involved in common carriage than the Baltimore Streetcar Museum (and has not been for some time).

I further agree with Commissioner Mulvey that Common Carrier Authority should not be used as a shield against payment of debt. Think of the Simpleton of Somerset's contentions that because he was a railroad he did not have to make good on a bad check or that he was not personally financially liable when he sold the use of someone else's reporting marks and of course the Bankrupt of Baltimore's similar contention in a number of cases.

There are still remedies available under state law and I hope the board of the Stewartstown pursues them. The key issue is satisfying the debt. If a shortline is being operated as a commercial venture with profitable freight services the preservation efforts can be a very worthwhile adjunct. If there is insufficient freight revenue to pay the bills then the preservation effort should draft its business and financial plans accordingly. The Common Carrier and the Preservation Effort need to recognize that though they may seem to overlap and that they complement each other they are not synonymous. The Railroad Museum of New England/Naugatuck Railroad has a model that appears to work. So does the Wanamaker Kempton and Southern. One of the reasons they work is that neither organization is pretending to be something it is not. Remember that the really successful tourist lines are not in the railroad business - they are in the entertainment business and the railroad is simply a means to provide that entertainment.

GME