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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Word on the street is that the Roanoke Rambler is working on a major story on this which will be published " soon ".

I'm sure it will contain some interesting facts.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 am
Posts: 57
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sounds like some of state money was invested, which is not permitted, and they have to return money to a former NS President - guessing that is because of the engine house?


The money donated by former NS Chairman David Goode was for a Roanoke Exhibit, telling the story of Roanoke and the railroads. Not for an enginehouse, which was a separate fundraising effort. That information was from a former Museum Executive Director.

Ken Miller


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2024 8:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1712
Sounds like a great exhibit - I wonder why they would want to give the money back?

Definitely doesn’t sound well managed to me.


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:31 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:00 pm
Posts: 166
Another new board member. His name is Darnell Wood, former NS Executive. 36 years a railroader

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/UC5uyL95YU4p67R1/


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2024 6:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 am
Posts: 57
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sounds like a great exhibit - I wonder why they would want to give the money back?

Definitely doesn’t sound well managed to me.


The money was given probably close to 10 years ago, thus far, nothing has been done to produce said exhibit.


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1712
klmiller611 wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sounds like a great exhibit - I wonder why they would want to give the money back?

Definitely doesn’t sound well managed to me.


The money was given probably close to 10 years ago, thus far, nothing has been done to produce said exhibit.


I wonder why? They have a curator on staff as well as 2 directors on staff. Have none of them worked on this project?


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 88
Location: NC
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
klmiller611 wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Sounds like a great exhibit - I wonder why they would want to give the money back?

Definitely doesn’t sound well managed to me.


The money was given probably close to 10 years ago, thus far, nothing has been done to produce said exhibit.


I wonder why? They have a curator on staff as well as 2 directors on staff. Have none of them worked on this project?


Well, for starters, you have to WANT to work on the project. Also, keep in mind they have been through numerous Executive Directors ever since Fitzpatrick retired and the current one is most unqualified of any of them, so there is no leadership there.

Notice too, when you look at their schedule of events.....on-site cruise-ins, a band and a food truck, "Mommy & Me" craft somethings, car shows.....they present more like an out of touch wannabe night club that a transportation museum that teaches local and state transportation history.

Remember that they (VMT) don't restore or repair anything themselves......hard to when you run off volunteers. N&W 1776, Wabash E8, N&W 2156 cosmwric work,C&W diesel, Panama Canal mule.....all done by NS, the Roanoke Chapter NRHS, etc. Mix in numerous donations from folks that never see the light of day by being displayed, nobody is surprised that a funded project can't get done.

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Will Sadler


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 10:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Let's hope that the BOD in their recruitment of new Directors are doing a full disclosure of current events so the new recruits are accepting a Board seat armed with all the facts?

Time will tell. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:22 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1174
Location: B'more Maryland
nasaracer32 wrote:
Notice too, when you look at their schedule of events.....on-site cruise-ins, a band and a food truck, "Mommy & Me" craft somethings, car shows.....they present more like an out of touch wannabe night club that a transportation museum that teaches local and state transportation history.


You have to have people in your facility to do your interpretive work. Those types of events bring people in, and unless you're one of the world's top tier museums (think The Smithsonian, Field Museum and Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago), you need them to do that.

That's how modern museums work.

A museum that is just a dusty hall full of railroad equipment and lonely docents is one that will soon be gone.

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The past was the worst.


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1712
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
nasaracer32 wrote:
Notice too, when you look at their schedule of events.....on-site cruise-ins, a band and a food truck, "Mommy & Me" craft somethings, car shows.....they present more like an out of touch wannabe night club that a transportation museum that teaches local and state transportation history.


You have to have people in your facility to do your interpretive work. Those types of events bring people in, and unless you're one of the world's top tier museums (think The Smithsonian, Field Museum and Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago), you need them to do that.

That's how modern museums work.

A museum that is just a dusty hall full of railroad equipment and lonely docents is one that will soon be gone.


There is a middle ground on this - the best solution is to have events that have a natural connection to the mission of the organization.

One of the negatives of focusing too much time and energy on special events that don't further the mission is it takes time, money, and resources away from on-mission projects that can have a much bigger impact on the future of the organization - in this case, state funding.

If the employees of VMT are more interested in party planning and ordering hats - that may not be the best fit for the organization... maybe that was the point that 6 board members were trying to make and it was falling on deaf ears? :)


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 1:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 88
Location: NC
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:

You have to have people in your facility to do your interpretive work. Those types of events bring people in, and unless you're one of the world's top tier museums (think The Smithsonian, Field Museum and Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago), you need them to do that.

That's how modern museums work.

A museum that is just a dusty hall full of railroad equipment and lonely docents is one that will soon be gone.


I agree with what you're saying. A variety of events around different themes in theory should bring in a variety of people. One look at NCTM in Spencer shows you how successful that can be.

Unfortunately, that brings us full circle in the conversation about VMT. You have to want to do better and want to improve and they show no signs of that by continuing to tread water instead of swimming forward. Also, they are notorious for poor treatment of volunteers and ultimately running them off. Charles Hardy, who recently passed away, was one of the main voices and images that you saw during the Fire Up 611 effort. The current executive director ran him off in recent years.

One of the recently resigned board members even called that out in the resignation letter..... the stonewalling that he received from the "good ol' boys club" known as the Executive board that kept him from bringing new people onto the board and into leadership roles at the museum.

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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2024 1:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 68
I said it in earlier posts and I'll say it again: no business plan?


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3969
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Not much really new, but here is a story from Railfan and Railroad.

EDIT: I notice that R&R describes the operations of last year as being "successful." Certainly they seemed to have been operationally successful, and that comment suggests they may have been profitable, too.

If that's so, this is could still a good test of concept for mainline steam on a regular schedule. Hey, if we can have at least two narrow gauge roads of fairly long length that make money with steam (Cumbres & Toltec and Durango & Silverton)--and for the most part the maintenance on their engines wouldn't be that much less than on a standard gauge counterpart (two cylinders, two sets of valve gear, eight drivers, boiler, superheater--then why not a mainline trip with bigger power, especially if you can have attractions like state parks or historical sites as possible stops along the way?

https://railfan.com/norfolk-western-611 ... _4HSBHzvQA


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
From open sources I would guess that last years 611 excursions had to bring in at the very least $ 200K to the VMT in net operating revenue ( ticket revenues minus direct operating expenses) which is a good seasons work.

What happened internally ( thousands of extra hats etc.) is another matter and evidently one of the serious issues causing the 6 directors who were the ones responsible for the successful 611 operation to walk away??? Darn shame as the engine is the loser.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: 611 to be Retired?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 4:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1712
What mainline trips in recent years have not been financially successful? The Reading always sells out - I think the 261 and 765 trips are regularly full.

TVRM always fills up those Summerville trains too (not really mainline by definition, but all day steam excursions in the same style).


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