It is currently Thu May 01, 2025 1:52 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1253 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 1:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Shell has been a habitual user of Vermilion since about 1948 or so, the year they adopted the simplified scallop shell logo. Before that, it was one of the oil companies' favorites, Toluidine Red, like Texaco's Fire Chief Red, DuPont 674, but the Coke machine there looks like one of their later darker reds. The Ford in this picture is probably Candy Apple Red which is real close to GMC Permanent Red...


Attachments:
seventiesshellstation.JPG
seventiesshellstation.JPG [ 151.89 KiB | Viewed 16202 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Fri Dec 27, 2024 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:56 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Don't look at this picture too long or it'll hurt your eyes.

That's Texaco red on the left, WE5870...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... ode=WE5870

Next to that is WE5868, the equivalent of Ditzler/PPG 70001, which is 1950 and 1956 Shell Oil Red. We'll put this one to the side for now since we're more concerned at the moment with what DuPont was doing with this color...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... ode=WE5868

Next to WE5513 Swift Red on the right is WE5511, the cross to DuPont 1024/55141 Red according to the big binder full of Imron. This is also the postwar Shell Oil red although it's not listed under 55141 but then, Firestone is there under both...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... ode=WE5511

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... pont=55141

Further research into DuPont Ford Vermilion indicates DuPont Ford Vermilion requires further research as this could be the most convoluted color we've dealt with up to this point so get prepared for the pain. OUCH!!!...


Attachments:
eyepain.jpg
eyepain.jpg [ 192.06 KiB | Viewed 15833 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Keep the first aid kit handy because here's what we're dealing with...

From 1935 until 1937, DuPont gave Ford Vermilion the code for 1863/9089 Swift Red but the chip is actually the same color as 674 Texas Red.

From 1938 until 1949, DuPont gave Ford Vermilion the code number of Dulux 5528 sometimes along with the Duco Swift Red code number of 9089 just to add to the confusion. This chip is slightly darker than Swift Red but does have the bluish and/or purplish vermilion tinting unlike both Texas or Swift Red.

Finally, in 1950, DuPont came out with 1024/55141 and that's been Ford Vermilion ever since. 1024 is the Duco stock number and 55141 is both the Duco and Dulux color code. This color is much closer to Texas Red as opposed to Swift Red and would be considered to be the corrected version since DuPont omits listing the older two in reference material issued after 1949 like they never even existed.

Soooo, how this may have affected the actual color applied to Reading cabooses before 1950, well, that's a darn good question. If anyone believes they looked a little darker for about ten years before, after, and during the war, that could be why...


Attachments:
dupontvfrmilionredscanonscans.JPG
dupontvfrmilionredscanonscans.JPG [ 67.27 KiB | Viewed 15234 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 1:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
I might become a believer, myself. There are at least two different shades of red underneath that faded and peeling Hersheypark paint with the original coat from 1942 being the darkest...


Attachments:
rdg92938closeup.jpg
rdg92938closeup.jpg [ 217.24 KiB | Viewed 15143 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2024 1:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
And here they are, all three DuPont Ford Vermilions in one picture but still, we might have to pay attention to the older Swift Red Light and Dulux 5528 versions even if DuPont says they never were. Hey, I wasn't that far off with Scarlet but we can always pretend that never was, either. LOL Swift Red is top center...


Attachments:
dupontfordvermilionswithpetesthumbandrockystail.jpg
dupontfordvermilionswithpetesthumbandrockystail.jpg [ 248.05 KiB | Viewed 15137 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Mon Dec 30, 2024 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:43 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
If you search for DuPont 5528 nowadays, that color code number was eventually reassigned to 1974 Diamond T and REO Chuctaw Brown. It is also a 1973 Ford and Lincoln color...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... upont=5528

In the 1954 Bulletin 11, the 93-55141 chip is placed where the darker 93-5528 chip would've been, between 93-24118 Mack Red and 93-24440 Harvester Red. In later collections, 55141 is positioned where it should be, between Texas and Swift Reds.

Here's another look. The slight hue difference between the 55141 and alleged 1863 chips is a bit more apparent. Mack Red is Plate #41...


Attachments:
dupontfordvermilionscloseup.jpg
dupontfordvermilionscloseup.jpg [ 196.33 KiB | Viewed 14331 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
This version of Ford Vermilion does line up pretty well with this version of Harvester Red although this version of Ford Vermilion is slightly more orange. This version of Dodge Truck Red, 93-72397, the lighter of the two versions of Dodge Truck Red featured in Bulletin 11, appears to be almost identical to this version of Harvester Red but maybe just a hair darker.

I do happen to have at least five different versions of DuPont's Harvester Red on hand if the need arises. Like other versions of Imron-era colors relative to their previous Duco and Dulux versions, 7410 is the darkest. Leaving a little bit of violet out of 7410's mixing formula might result in a reasonable facsimile of 5528...

http://www.mixmaster.biz/v_formulas/Details/28730

So anyway, that's about where this version of Ford Vermilion would sit on the fleet charts, not the 55141 version... LOL


Attachments:
dupontharvesterreddodgetruckredandfordvermilion.jpg
dupontharvesterreddodgetruckredandfordvermilion.jpg [ 151.27 KiB | Viewed 14225 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 4:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
DuPont wasn't the only major paint company that seemed to have trouble with Ford Vermilion. Ditzler/PPG 70538 was their third attempt at this color following 70074 for 1935-36 and 70075 from 1937 until 1949. Still, 70538 is slightly darker than DuPont 1024/55141 and appears to be a tinted version of Swift Red.

DT3039 is the Chrysler fan deck match for 70001. It also matches 70358 but not the lighter General Motors WE5668 even though they're supposed to be the same color...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... ode=DT3039

Federal Truck Red is close to Texas Red and Ford Vermilion on the later color charts so it's a bit lighter than DT3039. DT3043 would be Ditzler/PPG's version of Swift Red...

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetai ... ode=DT3043

I don't know, but it looks like my camera is beginning to lose its focus on paint colors just like I do occasionally...


Attachments:
ditzlerppgfordvermilion.jpg
ditzlerppgfordvermilion.jpg [ 193.56 KiB | Viewed 13491 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
I'm not even going to try to explain what's going on here until I fix my camera problem but the Vermilion that's not labeled as Ford Vermilion is the closest to DuPont 1024/55141 and General Motors WE5511... LOL


Attachments:
swcf.jpg
swcf.jpg [ 137.42 KiB | Viewed 13487 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Here's some evidence that DuPont 1024/55141 and General Motors WE5511 would've been the correct color all along when compared to this set of 1934-35 lacquer chips from an unknown and yet-to-be-determined paint company. I took the latter pic back in the low afternoon sun of mid-December when my camera still worked right on auto-pilot...


Attachments:
unknown1934-35fordlacquercards.jpg
unknown1934-35fordlacquercards.jpg [ 275.35 KiB | Viewed 6940 times ]
generalmotorswe5511andfordvermilionlacqerchip.jpg
generalmotorswe5511andfordvermilionlacqerchip.jpg [ 197.01 KiB | Viewed 13486 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:53 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Okay, banged the camera against my head a couple of times so now we're both experiencing improved levels of clarity.

What might be going on here is that the paint companies somehow got Ford Vermilion crossed up with Ford Aurora Red, a darker and less orange vermilion which was used by Ford as a wheel and trim color...


Attachments:
fordlacqueranddupontchips.jpg
fordlacqueranddupontchips.jpg [ 188.51 KiB | Viewed 13456 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
On the Sherwin-Williams fleet chart, The Ford Vermilion chip that looks like it should be Aurora Red is very close to this particular Coca-Cola color which, if I remember right, is one of the Dodge Truck Reds.

I did have a problem properly lining up the colors yesterday due to the hazy sunlight but you guys should get the idea. That lacquer Ford Vermilion sample is quite reactive to changing light conditions, more so than the later ones...


Attachments:
fordlacquerandswchips.jpg
fordlacquerandswchips.jpg [ 181.97 KiB | Viewed 13447 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
These are 1940 and 1946 Martin-Senour Ford chip sheets side-by-side. Notice anything unusual about Vermilion and Aurora Red?... LOL


Attachments:
ms1940and1946fordchipsets.JPG
ms1940and1946fordchipsets.JPG [ 87.01 KiB | Viewed 13443 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
As of 1952, the Martin-Senour Synthol enamel number of 80-101 for Ford Vermilion remains the same since 1934, however...


Attachments:
ms1952fordvermilion.JPG
ms1952fordvermilion.JPG [ 33.51 KiB | Viewed 12558 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Alternative Examples of the Reading's Postwar Paint Colo
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1356
Location: Annville, PA
Finishing up with Ford Aurora Red, the closest match to the lacquer chip in the 1954 DuPont Bulletin 11 is the lighter of the two Dodge Truck Reds but I'd have to check this about twenty more times just to be absolutely sure...

EDIT: Just discovered that DuPont 5528 was used by the Missouri Pacific as of 1949 according to the big list so I apparently didn't waste too much time and effort covering that one. ;)


Attachments:
dupontdodgetruckredvsfordauroraredlacquer.jpg
dupontdodgetruckredvsfordauroraredlacquer.jpg [ 131.28 KiB | Viewed 12557 times ]


Last edited by NVPete on Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1253 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CJKlossner, Google [Bot] and 139 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: