Ranier Rails -

I would think that C&NW 110509 started out as a ballast car and that C&NW X201775 was originally a covered hopper, so neither would qualify for inclusion on this list. If someone from IRM has contrary info, it would be appreciated.

Les

Another open top car, plus an early NYC? shorty two-bay covered hopper, can be seen here, perhaps the same location as that mystery Milwaukee Parade Locomotive.
http://goo.gl/maps/fnJIu

Olin -

Interesting photo. Milwaukee Road hopper.

Les

The green, two-bay hoppers marked SMRR are ex-Hallett cars. The Sisseton Milbank Railroad purchased them at the same time Dakota Southern bought the sisters, since scrapped. The Sisseton Milbank was recently purchased by its friendly connection, the Twin Cities & Western. The cars are not ex-MILW. My recollection, admittedly hazy, is the cars were originally NYC.
Alex Huff

I'd sure like to see one of those NYC cars back east.....

Howard P.

And one at HVRM in North Judson would sure look good too.

Les

There is a new thread entitled "Civil War Deck Roof Passenger Car brought to museum". One of the references shows a series of photos taken at White Sulphur Springs, Montana of a string of railroad equipment. The string shown is NP passenger car #633, a GTW heavyweight passenger car, a cattle car and what is described as a Milwaukee Road hopper with an obliterated number. The hopper car is too far in the distance to see if it is a two bay hopper and should be added to this thread. Also, if I read that explanation of the photo series correctly, they were taken in 2007. So don't know if the hopper, or the other cars for that matter, are still sitting there. I am not sure why they are in White Suphur Springs anyway. Is this a museum? There is an old depot near the string, so maybe its a depot museum with the cars there for display. Any info is appreciated.

Les

With regard to the equipment at White Sulphur Spring Montana....

Not quite sure of the evolution of the White Sulphur Springs and Yellowstone Park Railway, but some notes:

The line never owned it's own motive power, consistantly leasing steam and diesel power from the Milwaukee Road.

Somewhere in the mid-70's, the owners of the line acquired a light 4-6-0 (now somewhere in static display in Iowa I believe) that was used for tourist trains from White Sulphur Springs South. Not sure that they turned the steam engine, or if they ran around at the nearest siding. The line accumulated a number of cars, including the one's Les Beckman listed, but also the Milwaukee Road heavyweight Solarium Lounge "Coast", GN 902 (subject of an aborted thread by Flo) and a diner of unknown vintage in gray primer. Of these I think that only the GN, NP and possibly GTW cars (which I recall having chalked numbering stenciled, but not painted on it in 1982).

One of the last projects the train was involved in was in shooting portions of the movie "Heartland". The train is shown moving slowly through the Smith River Valley before "arriving" at White Sulphur Springs. This involved some in train shots and station unloading scenes.

At this point, from inquiries with the Meagher County Clerk and Recorder, the railroad equipment wound up being owned by one of the film studios/principals involved with the film. When the Milwaukee Road quit in 1980, the passenger equipment was left landlocked. Eventually the steam engine (in a single stall engine house to the south of the current equipment) was removed. Also left behind was the Milwaukee Road stock car and the two bay hopper, modified with ballast doors.

Since then, the Milwaukee Road "Coast" has been moved to a ranch just west of Livingston. I believe this is the former Fort Riley(?) or a similar car that some have considered suited for preservation at the like of IRM (but have not coughed up the money. As I hear tell, the current owner would like to recover his costs into the car (trucking it down from White Sulphur Springs, etc), so, it sits.

The GN 902 wound up on the Central Montana Railroad, which is the former MILW Northern Montana Mainline to Great Falls. It is currently stored at Arrow Creek, I believe. The diner was either scrapped, or may have been moved to Chico to become a private residence (according to an anecdote related to me by a staffer at the Livingston Depot Center 15 years ago), though it was reportedly dropped in the process of moving.

I was in White Sulphur Springs on the Fourth of July in 2012 and I didn't recall seeing the ballast hopper, so it may have been scrapped, or moved to some other purpose. The NP cars still looks tight, the GTW car is pretty much a ruin inside, with the roof failing, though the carbody still has ice bunker AC equipment (and probably decent trucks). The site is maintained as some sort of quasi public park/musuem space, though there is no interpretive information present.

It's pretty dry country around there, and as the wood car moved to Libby can attest, things can last a long time if a good roof is kept on them.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Michael and the forum--

History of the "Coast":

MILW "Coast" was originally one of a group (number unknown) of 12S-1DR sleepers built in 1910 by Pullman in Lot #3787 to Plan #2477C*, named in the "Camp"-Series, and assigned to the Milwaukee Road. In 1931, at least two of these cars were reconfigured to buffet lounge solariums (16 seats), and named after towns on the MILW.

*I don't know if this was the original Plan from 1910, or if it was the Plan after the 1931 rebuild.

Regarding the two examples I know of:

Camp Grant

"Camp Grant" was initially renamed the "Terre Haute", and was later renamed the "Harlowton". The "Harlowton" was later retired from MILW revenue service and transferred to the MofW department as camp car #X830. It was sold sometime in the 60's to Golden Arrow Tours in Janesville, WI. It was later resold to a private owner in Pontiac, MI. Another private owner in Saginaw, MI, later acquired the car. The car was moved to the Illinois Railway Museum for storage. After arriving at IRM, there was apparently some sort of accident involving the car and the overhead trolley wires. There was inside fire damage, including a hole in the roof, and as the car was apparently still owned by a separate group at this time and simply stored at Union, this put the car in limbo. Eventually (I don't know the details), IRM decided to deaccession the car and it was scrapped in 2009. I don't know if the deaccession was because IRM determined that the car was non-recoverable in terms of stabilizing the condition, or if the bills resulting from the car's separate ownership, storage fees, and fire damage, made deaccession the only logical conclusion.

Camp Randal

"Camp Randal" was renamed the "Madison". The "Madison" was later retired from MILW revenue service and transferred to the electrification department as #X420. At some point it was renamed "Coast". This was possibly while in use by the electrification department on the Milwaukee Road's Coast Division, but I haven't found much to clarify this. This is the car that ended up on the WSS&YP, and is now owned by a private individual outside of Livingston.

Other "Camp"-Series Cars:

Michael: interesting that your sources list the "Coast" as the former "Fort Riley". I don't have a complete roster of the "Camp"-Series sleepers and their dispositions (names appplied at the 1931 rebuild, retirement dates, etc.).

The Other "Camp Randall":

What makes this even more confusing is the existence of another "Camp Randall" (notice the different spelling) that was part of the Great Northern Bar in Milwaukee. Some of the cars that made up the bar are now part of the collection at the Kansas City Rail Experience, but I don't know the current whereabouts of the "Camp Randall". During its years as part of the bar, it was painted in UP Armour Yellow and lettered for the Milwaukee Road. If this "Camp Randall" was indeed of MILW heritage, what's the story??

_________________
Seeing as how this is the Two-Bay Open Hopper Thread, I'll be cross-posting the above information into the "Civil War Deck Roof Car" thread concerning the White Sulphur Springs & Yellowstone Park RY.

No, I only came up with the Ft. Riley names as a wild assed guess. Could have, should have Googled. : < ((.

Too bad the Harlowton didn't survive a bit longer. The county (Wheatland) is in a position to celebrate its railroad heritage (and has been supporting the county historical society to that end) and might have jumped at a chance to have a "hometown" car back--well until they found out how much the restoration would cost...

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

I am curious if anything is to be done with the N&W hoppers at the Virginia Museum of Transportation. It is my understanding that these hoppers are very old and of unique design, though I will have to consult my records to show just how old they are. The museum is of course, focused on the Fire Up 611 project, but I would like to see something done down the road to preserve these jewels before they are lost forever.
lois
N&W steam historian

I found a photo in a sequence on Flickr that my friend Tom Travis alerted me to. The particular theme of the photos taken by a gentleman by the name of Bob McGilvray Jr. was on cabooses, but on going through it, I found a two bay open top hopper car! Certainly it had to be mentioned in this long running thread, but on going through the 10 pages, I couldn't find it. So here is Bob's photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/n8myc/142 ... 3179486049

Note that the Norfolk & Western two bay hopper is right out there in the open behind N&W 2-8-0 number 7. How could it not have been included in this thread? Anyway, belatedly, it is now! Photo was taken in June of this year. No number on the hopper. Anybody got an idea as to what it might be?

Les

I have heard (and sort of seen on Google earth) that the MBTA has a rather old two bay hopper stashed away in old Yard 14 at the Boston Engine Terminal along with a B&M milk car and a couple of covered hoppers. Can any Boston area folks confirm?

Rob Davis

Rob -

Your note got my few remaining brain cells working and I recalled that the Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunkport, Maine has (or had) a two bay open top hopper that they had acquired from the MBTA. The car is ex-Pennsy and when I saw it a few years ago, it was still wearing its PRR MofW yellow paint, which was starting to fade. Here is a more recent photo of the car which shows that more of the original freight car red is showing through:

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=195670

For some reason, this car apparently never was mentioned in this thread. Anyhow, after my wife and I had visited Seashore and found the car there, I sent a letter to the museum asking about its status. I was advised it was used to spread ballast and that the museum intended to keep it in that service. The person who sent the letter, which I can't locate right now, told me that the MBTA still had another similar car on their property. Perhaps that is the one you are referring to. I wonder if it too is ex-PRR. Let's hope someone in Boston replies to your request and can confirm the existence of that car.

Les

Hi Les,

I have heard the hopper in Boston is ex PRR. Could be a sister car?

Rob