PRR 1361

Steamguy73 · **Joined:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm **Posts:** 635

Here’s a postwar picture of 1361. 1947 to be exact, before it was sent to NJ.

Note the larger headlight, pre war pilot, and (I believe) the absence of the smoke box deck

PRR7099 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:34 pm **Posts:** 23

mcgrath618 wrote:

T.E.P wrote:

The museum has been clear in its press releases that 1361 will remain as she appeared in commuter service at the end of steam on the NY&LB, which makes sense if the plan is to create a historically correct, all-PRR trainset.

Purely speculation (which is horribly dangerous, especially when talking about 1361), but I can think of only one set of PRR P70 coaches running around, and they happen to be postwar rebuilds to P70fR, albeit in their 1960s configuration (balloon roof).

The museum has a few other cars of its own to add/remove from such a trainset.

I actually don’t know the set of P70s to which you refer, might you elucidate that for me?

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:33 am

This brings up something that might be important.

How many P70s are sill around? What configurations or subclasses are they in? How many might be serviceable, or could be made serviceable?

And are there any other PRR passenger car classes that could be used?

bigjim4life · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:17 am

PRR7099 wrote:

mcgrath618 wrote:

T.E.P wrote:

The museum has been clear in its press releases that 1361 will remain as she appeared in commuter service at the end of steam on the NY&LB, which makes sense if the plan is to create a historically correct, all-PRR trainset.

Purely speculation (which is horribly dangerous, especially when talking about 1361), but I can think of only one set of PRR P70 coaches running around, and they happen to be postwar rebuilds to P70fR, albeit in their 1960s configuration (balloon roof).

The museum has a few other cars of its own to add/remove from such a trainset.

I actually don’t know the set of P70s to which you refer, might you elucidate that for me?

Let's pretend like we can't tell just from the photo where this is. Where is it?

PRR7099 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:34 pm **Posts:** 23

I painted (with friends) ex-PRR 1704 & 1700 to complement my car the MINERAL SPRING ex-PRR7099. Next year I hope to get ex-PRR 1678 painted

the location is Tuckahoe, NJ

PrrOpCrew · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:09 pm

Ed Kapuscinski wrote:

Can we hope they undo the post war "beauty treatment"? :-)

I've heard from a reliable source inside the Museum that it's a long-term goal to back date the appearance of the locomotive. The correct drawings with these details have been obtained to look at the feasibility of doing it easily too.

PrrOpCrew · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:23 pm

T.E.P wrote:

The museum has been clear in its press releases that 1361 will remain as she appeared in commuter service at the end of steam on the NY&LB, which makes sense if the plan is to create a historically correct, all-PRR trainset.

Purely speculation (which is horribly dangerous, especially when talking about 1361), but I can think of only one set of PRR P70 coaches running around, and they happen to be postwar rebuilds to P70fR, albeit in their 1960s configuration (balloon roof).

The museum has a few other cars of its own to add/remove from such a trainset.

I guess you forgot about the set of 5 P70fbr that have been "preserved" in Texas?

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=557958

EJ Berry · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:03 am

The P70's with the modern 2E-P5 trucks are the post-WWII rebuilt P70fbR cars. Other than the "hot" (no air-conditioning) P70 1006 at RRMPA I think all surviving P70's are P70fbR's. In the 1960's the P70fbR's were repainted and upgraded with balloon roofs over the clerestory roofs. "PENNSYLVANIA" spelled out in the letterboard was replaced with keystones at the ends. PC repainted some P70's in PC green but the less said of that the better. The "R" in the class meant air-conditioned. In the 1960's PRR dropped the "R" and in the PC era it became true.

Someone asked if there were another coach that could be used. The short answer is "no."

The P70 was in production from 1910 to 1927 and was PRR's only large standardweight (PRR's term) coach through the K4s era. The mP54 was a light riveted commuter coach more appropriate behind a G5s 4-6-0. Many mP54's were converted to MU cars with the "M" capitalized as MP54. (LIRR dropped the "m" from their non-electrified cars so the LIRR MU's were MP54 and the coaches were P54.)

Strange to relate, I actually think there are currently more Reading Company heavyweight coaches than PRR. R.Co. was selling them for further service in the 1960's as they were replaced by RDC's and new MU cars.

Phil Mulligan

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:42 am

EJ Berry wrote:

The P70's with the modern 2E-P5 trucks are the post-WWII rebuilt P70fbR cars. Other than the "hot" (no air-conditioning) P70 1006 at RRMPA I think all surviving P70's are P70fbR's. In the 1960's the P70fbR's were repainted and upgraded with balloon roofs over the clerestory roofs. "PENNSYLVANIA" spelled out in the letterboard was replaced with keystones at the ends. PC repainted some P70's in PC green but the less said of that the better. The "R" in the class meant air-conditioned. In the 1960's PRR dropped the "R" and in the PC era it became true.

Phil Mulligan

Well, it would take a bit of money and time, but it looks like backdating some of those P70fbRs might not be too difficult--sort of.

Quote:

P70fbR -- Following World War II, cars #1600-1675 were rebuilt to create the P70fbR coaches, delivered in 1948; #1676-1723 in 1949, and #1724-1728 in late 1949 into 1950, #1729-1736 during 1950, #1737-1743 in late 1950 into 1951, and #1744-1749 in late 1951 into 1952. P70fbR coaches #1760-1765 were also delivered between 1951-52. A total of 40 P70fbR cars, randomly scattered through the 9865-9935 series, were created for the Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines in 1949-50.

On the PRR FAX list, Ralph Brown offered this additional [unverified] information on August 29, 2015:

"We had a brief discussion about these on the PRSLHS list. 'Buzz' Burnley provided the following info:

"They were all rebuilt with the original clearstory roofs and the toilet rooms were relocated to one end of the car and electrical and AC control cabinets were at the other end, so the 'porthole' toilet room windows were both at the same end of the car.

"The round roof or 'balloon roof' cars didn't appear until about 1960 when the clearstory roofs began to deteriorate and leak. The railroad didn't replace the original roofs, they just constructed a sheetmetal arch from the lower roof edge to the upper roof, hence the 'balloon roof'. This was also done on many of the B60 baggage cars for the same reason.

"PRSL never had any 'balloon roof' cars. They all kept their clearstory roofs until they were retired or sold.

"PRR P70fbR cars had Pennsylvania spelled out on the letterboard when they had clearstory roofs. When they were rebuilt with the 'balloon roof' the Pennsylvania was removed from the letterboard and 4 Scotchlite keystone decals were applied to each end-panel on the sides of the car.

"Simple rule: No clearstory roof P70fbR ever had Scotchlite decals and no 'balloon roof' P70fbR ever had Pennsylvania on the letterboard." [Not true; see below.]

On the PRR Modeling list, Rick Schoch countered on August 31, 2015:

"I have a photo of two clerestory roof fbR's in the Spartan scheme that I downloaded years ago before I took care to make a note of sources and photographers. It's a pic of a Valpo Dummy behind a PC Geep."

How many of those are still left?

Source:

https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php ... oach-fleet

PRR7099 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:34 pm **Posts:** 23

Quote:

PrrOpCrew wrote:

T.E.P wrote:

The museum has been clear in its press releases that 1361 will remain as she appeared in commuter service at the end of steam on the NY&LB, which makes sense if the plan is to create a historically correct, all-PRR trainset.

Purely speculation (which is horribly dangerous, especially when talking about 1361), but I can think of only one set of PRR P70 coaches running around, and they happen to be postwar rebuilds to P70fR, albeit in their 1960s configuration (balloon roof).

The museum has a few other cars of its own to add/remove from such a trainset.

I guess you forgot about the set of 5 P70fbr that have been "preserved" in Texas?

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=557958

I believe those cars; 1658, 1646, 1684, 1699, 1731 & 1726 live in Iowa these days

mrwalsh85 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:55 pm **Posts:** 100

PRR7099 wrote:

I believe those cars; 1658, 1646, 1684, 1699, 1731 & 1726 live in Iowa these days

If those are the ones, they've been living a nice life.

They've been getting some new paint jobs (not sure if they are all completely done yet) and have been in service on the IAIS Fireman's Fundraiser trips. I thought they rode quite nice on the IAIS mainline.