I'm definitely not yelling at you or anyone about it. Is there no way to examine some of the stuff to guarantee that the work performed WAS up to standards, rather than having it redone?

Also - as PMC mentioned: "they have spent roughly $750K on the locomotive". In my brain, I thought it was a lot more money than that already spent on the locomotive. If it's "only" (weird for me to parenthesize that) $750K, then I can totally understand the remaining $2-3 million. I just thought that a lot more had already been spent on the engine.

We're doing some reorganizing in advance of Railfest to try to tidy up the yard, so don't assume any higher meaning if something has moved recently or is moved in the coming weeks.

I'm going to speak cautiously because I'm not an expert on the intricacies of boiler code, but apparently nothing is ever that simple. As for how much has been spent, I'm several steps removed from the numbers, but I do know that not everything that was raised before has been spent yet.

Also, while I'm here trying to be transparent, I'm also not one of the people who are making decisions now about what gets done and by whom. They pay me to pull the throttle and that's about it.

I agree with Bigjim4life. Not trying to yell at anyone by any means, just trying to gain a better understanding of what remains to be done and what remaining work is expected to take up these costs. I was wondering the same thing also, if the work could be closely examined to determine if it meets the contractor's standards rather than needing to be redone.

Thanks,
John

It's entirely possible that as work resumes it will be found that some of the suggested "do overs" aren't necessary, but frankly given the reputation this effort has gained, it seems more sensible to err on the side of worst case.

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my questions and/or extension thereof. Let's see some daily passenger power at Steamtown, not borrowed F7A's or logging locos. There's a wide array of locomotives as choices.

Everything I'm hearing from my diminishing number of sources is that the new Super is bringing a new style of management to Steamtown, understands the magnitude of the task, knows he's not "career green jeans", and is willing to try new things.

I think if he's able to make some incremental improvements , that will raise visitation-which plays a big role in funding decisions-but this will be a marathon, not a sprint.

He's only there a few months. He'll need time to repair the reputational damage from his predecessor and there is still a large endowment of "deferred maintenance" and financial limitations that will restrict his latitude. As always, NPS Superintendents are where the buck stops, but there's a lot things tying their hands. A lot will depend on navigating the .gov/OPM to get the right people in Curatorial, Mechanical and Operations.

There's a lot of hard decisions to be made, & some maybe as unpopular as they are necessary (dispositions). If your definition of success is something like the late 90's with two operable road locomotives pulling 6-8 car trains four times every weekend, with a switcher chugging around or pulling the (faux) circus train-that's not possible with the current or foreseeable mechanical staff count. There was an FTE staff count in the 80's back then a patron in Congress with a lot of clout (until 01/99).

If I were to advise the Super, I'd say he needs to consider rethinking the operating plan, doing something along the lines of what Lisa Su has done so masterfully for AMD. Identify the core competency and outsource or open source the rest-to the extent possible. There has been an exodus of numbers and experience from the shop-and experience is only gained with operating locomotives-a nasty Catch-22 and mechanical and operating knowledge must be continually developed and transmitted. Eventually even the new crew will go the way of all flesh.

There will be internal regulatory restrictions-as well as the NPS' informal culture-which at times borders on hostility to visitor interest.

A short clip of BLW 26 "pacing" the excursion with the circus train. We'd head East to the fouling point of the East Mall Siding Switch-really popular with riders, then back to the area adjacent to the core complex. It really is a happy memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3F-taLDsZY

Thank you for posting that video, those were indeed the glory days. It truly is tough to think about how much optimism and promise there was in the late 90s vs. today.

My pleasure. It was a truly unique time-far enough away from the steam era or even what I would call the pervasive influence of railroads era when they were everywhere and you knew somebody who drew a railroad paycheck and before the birth of many-but close enough that men like Bernie O'Brien (who I knew) and Norm Cole (who I did not, but heard much about) were still around and could offer personal and oral histories and authentic insights.

The other thing that made that time sort of special was the Saturday dinners at the former Tom and Jerry's (a pizza/dinner place, replete with drawings of famous cartoons-and how they never got a cease and desist letter from the entertainment IP lawyers, I'll never know).

My first trip out for this weekly soirée, which did much to build comeraderie and salved a lot of the petty contempts that built up during the season-when the promise of a new year hit the reality of closing a hundreds of coach windows at the end of a stifling hot day was instructive.

I sat down and Bill Withuhn was lecturing the assembled. I sat next to Bernie O'Brien and he said "hello" followed by "geez, these guys are on trains all day, you think they'd talk about girls or something". It still makes me chuckle.

I say this with all the respect I can muster.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Steamtown is restoring one of the more unique locomotives they have in their collection, a locomotive most people probably never thought they’d see run, and your response is essentially, “Nah, not that one.”

I get that you’re all pining for the glory days when $5 million bought more than it does now, but you really need to adjust to the idea that Steamtown we currently have is not going to be the one of the 90s and early 2000s, at least not right away.

You want to see big steam run, there’s a link on the Iron Horse Society’s website for donations to 3713.

Richard ("the man who saved Alco FA2 L&N #309") Glueck is entitled to a great deal of respect.

I agree with Richard. Some folks seem a little thin skinned up there in Scranton. Nobody is yelling at you. And Richard, aside from being a taxpayer like the rest of us, has every right to state his opinion, as that seems to be a primary function of this forum. Personally I am glad to see some new enthusiasm at steamtown and will temper my criticisms as we watch the progress. I am no stranger to the world of steam locomotive restoration and operation, so a few basic observations, at the risk of sounding ridiculous; steamtown is way ahead of the game compared to most other efforts to restore and operate steam. As Richard notes, there’s plenty to choose from, two of which were operated there in the recent past and are kept indoors. They are well suited for the work. Steamtown has excellent shop facilities and equipment. They have steady funding, at least for now. I understand it was a managerial choice to start work on the Shay instead of concentrating on a road engine. The merits of that choice can be fairly debated. I have nothing against fixing the Shay and I will enjoy seeing it run. But again I agree with Richard, that a key piece of the steamtown experience is missing. All the components are there to recreate a mainline steam railroad operating for the general public to ride and enjoy and be educated. Isn’t that what we should expect from a national park? For our tax dollars? Now I’m fully aware large steam locomotives don’t get overhauled quickly, but I would be glad to see that work started sooner rather than later.

I write this with as much respect as I can muster. Do you realize how naive you sound?

I like Shays as much as anybody, but you apparently don't understand a couple of things.

There are limits with the Baldwin 26 (I remember a trip in the late 90's to C-Dale where we had to stop ten times because the firebox wasn't designed to run continuously supplying steam heat to three coaches on a sub 20 degree day). The Shay is even smaller (17,000 pounds TE vs 29,000 for the 26). You can bet that Shay has an even smaller firebox and is even more speed limited. The 26 can pull three coaches to the Gorge with relative ease-but the upper limit on that Shay is going to two coaches-and it won't have the speed to make an extra trip to compensate for lower train capacity. The last thing Steamtown needs is on-line reviews "I came for a ride but all the trains were sold out"

Visitors (and I spoke to tens of thousands over 20+ years) care mostly about two things-the presence of operating steam and the ability to get a ride. Everything else is secondary. IF there's a steam engine chugging about, the little SW being restored provides additional interest (and crew training opportunities), ditto for the F3's or even the DL Alcos pulling grain. If there's no operating steam, then they can all be operating-the visitor will say "Where's the steam?"

Maybe the Shay is easily restored (some disagree, others think it will require more mechanical effort to maintain). Unfortunately, I can't pass on all the comments I've received privately, but let's just say there is some skepticism that this was the right choice, given its design parameters. We really should be able to see the considerations that led to this decision, including the consideration of alternatives that might have been more versatile, even if more difficult to restore. In aeronautical terms, they need a 737 or A321, but they are getting a Cessna 408.

As for the 3713, here's the problem as it was relayed to me by multiple parties-there were multiple contractors that were brought in to assess the scope of work, and both indicated certain work done by the B&M would need to be replaced. Unfortunately, there's a problem. If you retain somebody to complete a scope of work review, unless they are precluding from bidding on the work, they have every incentive to include both desirable as well as necessary work. Otherwise, they would have to explain why things weren't included-especially if upon teardown-desirable became absolutely necessary.

So is the IHS the fundraiser for the 3713? Yes. Note however it is the third item down. Unless there's a windfall donation, there's unlikely to be much action and donors have every right to be wary of the level of commitment after Shepherd's screwup with evicting the NRHS, shuttering the work and putting a gag order on employees.

(I note that her LinkedIn page still shows her as the Steamtown Super-so she's either retired or on a "sabbatical".)

People don't donate in a vacuum; they put the money where they see regular indications of progress. See 5550, for example.

Now of course, having initially posted the notion that the present and foreseeable limits preclude any possibility of returning to the halcyon days of the late 90's, I of course agree,

Then why don't you call up or email the Superintendent at the park and ask for that specific information? Maybe he'll enlighten you accordingly.

I've heard a rumor that she retired, but I assure you she has no power here anymore.

As for 3713 fundraising, the IHS is still wrestling with exactly how to present this effort to the public, given all the previous history you pointed out, but also there is a sense that with 3713 on pause, there is time to hone that messaging before the effort is shifted back to the Constitution. Certainly, getting an acceptable number of coaches back in service is a more pressing concern.