James,
After reading your post, you are right. It's not fair to say people don't use thier brains, but instead thier knowledge is the product of the "modern" world and the way most people are used to getting thier information. Being a farm boy,railway enthusiast and a licenced operating engineer (steam and refrigeration) has it's disadvantages in my own views on some subjects. This problem with the WMSR has to have some kind of solution ,if both sides are willing to work on it. We tend to have a slewed outlook on steam operations because of our passion for the machine,but the general public sees the whole thing in a different perpective. I can honestly say that if I had a badly smoking steam engine sitting in my backyard everyday,that maybe I wouldn't be a bit irritated after a few years with the smoke and soot, but what do we do as a community dedicated to the preservation and operation of steam locomotives and other coal fired steam machinery? Smoke was a problem and a railroad's headache even in the days of regular steam use. Is there an alternative other than going to oil firing? Is it the particular grade or source of coal they are using at WMSR that cuases all this smoke? Are the days of obtaining coal on a grade with "Welsh steam coal" gone? Someone in a reply to this post asked what the Brits do with all the steam engines that they run in UK as far as smoke. They last I knew they are using a high grade of steam coal form Poland that makes little smoke and burns hot and clean. Is this the answer,to import fuel from Europe to the middle of coal country? I don't know, but suspect this is not going away and may be a problem in other locations in future. We should be concerned and be looking for a resolution before all our coal fired equipment is shut down for smoke emissions. By the by,if the Federal EPA exempts historic steam locomtives from smoke emissions, who is the enforcement body levying fines on the WMSR?

captbuck@comcast.net

> who is the enforcement body levying fines on
> the WMSR?

West Virginia EPA. By the way, the fines are supposed to be levied if the "violation" conditions are not remedied in a specified period of time, which if my memory from reading the story in the Cumberland Times-News is accurate, 30 days.


gerald_altizer@atlanticbb.net

> Might I suggest that someone show the WV
> authorities video of their own Cass Scenic
> Railway operation?

Cass Scenic is located on a mountaintop in a remote area. The Western Maryland Scenic is located in a residential area with an athletic field on the edge of their property. Hard to equate that with the setting at Cass.

If Cass were in a similar neighborhood, they would have faced this years ago.



gerald_altizer@atlanticbb.net

It strikes me as a bit of double standards. Can someone explain the difference between the WMSR 734's smoke and the smoke from the various Shays, Heislers and Climaxes at Cass? I'd wager the WMSR is probably Ridgley's largest employer. Heck, now that I think of it, it seems to me the noxious gases from the Mt. Storm power plant are wafting my way from West Virginia, as well. Where's my lawyer?

prr8404@aol.com

None of the employees of the Western Maryland Scenic Railway are employed in West Virginia. They are employees of the State of Maryland.

gerald_altizer@atlanticbb.net

> How have the Brits handled this? The groups
> "across the pond" seem to have
> gone thru many such issues (with coal
> burners to boot).

I haven't heard of litigation yet but it won't take long! There are a couple of places where firing in the station is "verboten" on the grounds of good neighbourliness. Fortunately where I'm active we're effectively in the middle of a field.

G


gavin@hamilton.powernet.co.uk

I've been in the Ridgeley terminal when 734 was being prepped for service.

The smoke from that locomotive IS thick and heavy when initial fireup is occurring. During one visit, it was a quickly-cooling night, with fog settling in, and after a spell I was thinking "So *this* is what the killer London smog of 1952 was like........ how do the neighbors stand it?"

This is initial fire-up or banking the fire I'm talking. Dark grey volcanic clouds thick enough to almost literally slice with a knife. And yes, the Cass engines can do the same thing as well, but they fire up in a secluded valley on a turn away from the "populated" area of "town".

If any excursion line ever "deserved" its present situation, this WMSR scenario would have to be it. And it *can* be rectified, via different coal, overfire jets, or a stack blower to induce draft faster. The Black River & Western for years had (has?) a rickety-looking rig with a blower to swing in place atop #60's stack for fire-up, and I saw it in use with excellent results--wisps of black rather than volcano eruptions of solid gray.

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

The Black River & Western
> for years had (has?) a rickety-looking rig
> with a blower to swing in place atop #60's
> stack for fire-up, and I saw it in use with
> excellent results--wisps of black rather
> than volcano eruptions of solid gray.

We had something similar at New Hope years ago. I remember two of us carrying it up to the stack on the 9. I also have seen (and maybe it was at NH&I) an old metal window fan, maybe 18 or 20 inches square, used for draft. Couldn't use one of todays all plastic fans, thats for sure-

One of the other threads on this subject mentions that the chief complainer in Ridgeley just moved there, maybe a year ago? Seems like he didn't do his due diligence when picking his homesite.

edm5970@earthlink.net

>The Black River & Western for years had (has?) a
>rickety-looking rig with a blower to swing in
>place atop #60's stack for fire-up, and I saw it
>in use with excellent results--wisps of black
>rather than volcano eruptions of solid gray.

it's still here... up on the pole it's always been on, but the coalsmoke and years have gotten to it and it's a rather sad looking shell of what it once was... if i had a camera i'd take a picture to post for a good chuckle.

in all honesty, i don't like that draft inducer. it really forces the fire, and quick fireups are really not a desirable thing for a steam locomotive that someone like myself will need to maintain.

ideally just enough draft should be made so the smoke doesn't drift back into the cab... this can be done with an air compressor hooked up to the blower line.

the key is making sure you are not in a populated area... and starting a modestly drafted wood fire and LIGHTLY adding coal... the slower the fireup the better all the way around.

RCW

http://brwrr.com
rcw7585@njit.edu

I would say that there is not much difference between that type then the ones who buy new homes at the end of a Chester county Airport and them complain about the airplanes, or the "City Nimby's" who buy a home next to a farm and then complain about the smell and/or noise and want the farmer to cease his operations!
RL Niblick

> The Black River & Western

> We had something similar at New Hope years
> ago. I remember two of us carrying it up to
> the stack on the 9. I also have seen (and
> maybe it was at NH&I) an old metal
> window fan, maybe 18 or 20 inches square,
> used for draft. Couldn't use one of todays
> all plastic fans, thats for sure-

> One of the other threads on this subject
> mentions that the chief complainer in
> Ridgeley just moved there, maybe a year ago?
> Seems like he didn't do his due diligence
> when picking his homesite.


rrnut@prodigy.net

I have to say that you can please some of the folks some of the time and some nof the time etc.

The longer I live the more I am amazed at some peoples antics.

Here in San Francisco we had a case in the news about a guy who bought a house on Hyde Street where the cable cars run 18 hours a day for 365 days a year.

The NIMBY didn't like the noise. The Judge said that some people would line up to live next to the "little cars that climb half way to the stars" and threw the case out!

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Ted Miles


ted_miles@nps.gov