Please excuse the generalizations, the following items hold true for 98%+ of the traction engine owners/operators in my aquaintance in 5 states. Safety valve set pressures are usually in the 100psi range. Some (very few) are as high as 150psi, if they are in very good condition. Normal "operating pressure" is usually about 80-85% of the set pressure.

Most traction engineers (of my aquaintance) are hobbiest and feel no need to push their equipment. Being used mostly for demonstrations allows them a few luxuries, including time. Most engines get run about 10 days per year. Most will allow for slow warm ups via natural draft rather than hurrying things with the stack blower. Most are drained, cleaned and dried between shows. Most are very picky about training new help for their "babies", finicky about who handles or transports them, and spend a lot of time beforehand making sure they are 100%.

> County Fair Steam Tractor explodes, 3 dead
> so far.

Were that a miniature "steam locomotive" had blown up. Made me think it could had been an ex-sugar cane hualing type locomotive by the description the news provided. But it ended up being an old Case steam tractor.

terry_dempsey@hotmail.com

Also, apart from some cyl. oil and a squirt oil can, what was the "hot oil" that was mentioned before the steam???? That close in, I'd be more concerned airbore iron. I thought it was coal or soild fuel fired. Then again, they are only reporters. I've had my encounters with a few involving a locomotive restoration I worked on. A piece of advice here, If you see a paper or TV reporter, run the other way. If you have to deal with one, give them a concise written statement and reqire it be copied verbatim and not picked apart. Or ask to review the article prior to printing to fix the mistakes that unwittingly can paint an incorrect picture.

> Also, apart from some cyl. oil and a squirt
> oil can, what was the "hot oil"
> that was mentioned before the steam???? That
> close in, I'd be more concerned airbore
> iron. I thought it was coal or soild fuel
> fired. Then again, they are only reporters.
> I've had my encounters with a few involving
> a locomotive restoration I worked on. A
> piece of advice here, If you see a paper or
> TV reporter, run the other way. If you have
> to deal with one, give them a concise
> written statement and reqire it be copied
> verbatim and not picked apart. Or ask to
> review the article prior to printing to fix
> the mistakes that unwittingly can paint an
> incorrect picture.

Sorry the media has given you a bum’s rush, but please don’t paint all reporters with the same brush. As a reporter/editor for more than 13 years and a lifelong rail buff, I make damn sure my facts are straight no matter the story — especially if it’s near to my heart, like old trains. As far as asking the reporter to give you an advance copy of the story ... that’s like me telling you how to install staybolts. Let them do their job and you can do yours. If you don’t want to talk to them, don’t. There’s always another source.
Kevin

> Also, apart from some cyl. oil and a squirt
> oil can, what was the "hot oil"
> that was mentioned before the steam????

It may have been converted to burn oil instead of coal; but I am not certain. (There is an Advance Traction Engine in California that set up to burn propane.)

The fuel oil in the firebox, plus the fuel oil in the rear bunker could have been atomized and dispersed by the steam explosion. It sounds like soot from the firebox was also dispersed by the explosion; I agree that it sounds like a crown sheet failure.

This is only speculation; but I also wonder if they were distracted by the officers, allowing the water level to fall and the explosion to occur. Or perhaps something failed at that momement, and because they were not paying attention they could not do something about it before the crownsheet failed.

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

It was probably the remainig water that didn't flash to steam. 180 degrees is instant scalding?

pfdx@aol.com

> Also, apart from some cyl. oil and a squirt
> oil can, what was the "hot oil"
> that was mentioned before the steam???? That
> close in, I'd be more concerned airbore
> iron. I thought it was coal or soild fuel
> fired. Then again, they are only reporters.
> I've had my encounters with a few involving
> a locomotive restoration I worked on. A
> piece of advice here, If you see a paper or
> TV reporter, run the other way. If you have
> to deal with one, give them a concise
> written statement and reqire it be copied
> verbatim and not picked apart. Or ask to
> review the article prior to printing to fix
> the mistakes that unwittingly can paint an
> incorrect picture.

As a journalism student I can agree, especially on railroad relted stories, that reportrs can get the exact fact pretty mixed up. But these were reports that aired right after the explosion.

If you've seen the pictures of the wreakage, I'd ask you to imagine youself being a reporter, not knowing a staybolt from a saftey valve, much less the difference between a traction engine and a steam locomotive, arriving upon the scene and seeing that twisted, upsidedown hunk of metal. Maybe the cops or emergancy personal, in the fog of the moment told you it was a steam locmotive?

I'm just using that as an example to show how hard it would be to report on something you know nothing about.

But I would think that running from the press in the fear of them messing up some facts would be a horrible mistake for any museum/preservation groups. They are the people that historians/preservationist rely on to the the word out about projects and equipment/structures that in danger of being scrapped/demolished. They can screw stuff up much of the time, but the good they do far outwieghs the bad as far as the preservation community is cocerned, IMHO.

I origionally posted that note in an effort to make people here aware that it was origionally indentified as a steam locomotive and the possible ramafacations of that, not to critique the media.

> Also, apart from some cyl. oil and a squirt
> oil can, what was the "hot oil"
> that was mentioned before the steam???? That
> close in, I'd be more concerned airbore
> iron. I thought it was coal or soild fuel
> fired. Then again, they are only reporters.
> I've had my encounters with a few involving
> a locomotive restoration I worked on. A
> piece of advice here, If you see a paper or
> TV reporter, run the other way. If you have
> to deal with one, give them a concise
> written statement and reqire it be copied
> verbatim and not picked apart. Or ask to
> review the article prior to printing to fix
> the mistakes that unwittingly can paint an
> incorrect picture.

As a journalism student I can agree, especially on railroad relted stories, that reportrs can get the exact fact pretty mixed up. But these were reports that aired right after the explosion.

If you've seen the pictures of the wreakage, I'd ask you to imagine youself being a reporter, not knowing a staybolt from a saftey valve, much less the difference between a traction engine and a steam locomotive, arriving upon the scene and seeing that twisted, upsidedown hunk of metal. Maybe the cops or emergancy personal, in the fog of the moment told you it was a steam locmotive?

I'm just using that as an example to show how hard it would be to report on something you know nothing about.

But I would think that running from the press in the fear of them messing up some facts would be a horrible mistake for any museum/preservation groups. They are the people that historians/preservationist rely on to the the word out about projects and equipment/structures that in danger of being scrapped/demolished. They can screw stuff up much of the time, but the good they do far outwieghs the bad as far as the preservation community is cocerned, IMHO.

I origionally posted that note in an effort to make people here aware that it was origionally indentified as a steam locomotive and the possible ramafacations of that, not to critique the media.

terry_dempsey@hotmail.com

> This is only speculation; but I also wonder
> if they were distracted by the officers,
> allowing the water level to fall and the
> explosion to occur.

I think you have got it!

The crew may have been distracted by the cops and the injector did not prime. It was WATER that was being trailed along the ground not oil.

Supposedly the cops were going to give this guy a ticket for driving on a road with steel tires.
He lived very nearby the Fair gounds.

What I wonder is why the cop did this? Usually the locals dont bother the locals at county fairs etc. Was the cop a local yokel type?

The part about the steel wheels.......unless doing actual real damage.... whats the big deal?

Farm vehicles may well be "grandfathered" in highway laws.

Lots of Questions...wonder what the answers will be ?


http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains
oldtimetrains@rrmail.com

> Supposedly the cops were going to give this
> guy a ticket for driving on a road with
> steel tires.
> He lived very nearby the Fair gounds.

> What I wonder is why the cop did this?
> Usually the locals dont bother the locals at
> county fairs etc. Was the cop a local yokel
> type?

> The part about the steel wheels.......unless
> doing actual real damage.... whats the big
> deal?

> Farm vehicles may well be
> "grandfathered" in highway laws.

In regards to steel wheels -- they are NOT allowed on public roads anywhere. Old farm equipment with steel wheels, army tanks and bulldozers with steel tracks; they can all do damage to asphalt, not quite so bad on concrete.

Rubber cleats can be bolted onto each tread; that will prevent damage to the roadway. You can see these cleats on tracked vehicles fairly often.

I attended a steam and gas engine show in Winfield, Kansas about a year ago. The rubber wheeled tractors were paraded down main street one morning; the steel wheeled vehicles stayed on the grounds.

I am not sure why the owner decided to drive on the road anyway. He did live a short ways away; but he was also a long-time exhibitor at the show, and I'm sure he knew better. I would imagine he just didn't want to go through the trouble of trailering it; but if I am right; the long term effects of this shortcutting were much worst than a scarred road and a ticket.

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Look, nobody said it wasn't a tragedy. I hope the deceased were ready to meet their maker, if so, they are in better surroundings as little comfort as that may be to the survivors. Godspeed.

Nonetheless, this board concerns steam preservation and I represent that POV.

Panic and a too eager response to engage in self-incrimination will not bring anybody back. It might help destroy one of the few edifying activities left to us in the here and now.

I'm not into the hyperbolic overwrought emotion of the Clinton-Oprah Winfrey variety which seems to be the test of modern humanity.

"I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend"

Rush "limelight" from the album "Moving Pictures" 1981

Such a lovely attitude, "not a
> locomotive, so its not 'our'
> problem"...It is time to face the fact
> that all the steam fraternity (traction,
> stationary, model AND railroad) really has
> is each other. We don't have big lobbies
> like the airline, or automobile industries
> to prevent kneejerk reationary legislation
> from crippling all facets of the hobby, one
> at a time.

> This was a tragic accident, period, and my
> heart goes out to all the families.

Some traction guys put steam oil in there boilers when putting them up for the winter to ostensably prevent rust. Having seen the practice, it is impossible to get the oil out.

I read elsewhere (this is the internet so nothing is fact) that the tractor was oil fired, which would make a lot of sense. Seeing the victims faces blackened the way they were would require far more oil than would be needed for lubrication or that would line the inside of the boiler had it been treated that way. All the news reports said the oil was hot, which again would make sense if it was a heavy grade of oil it would have to be heated in order to flow.

Roger

> Some traction guys put steam oil in there
> boilers when putting them up for the winter
> to ostensably prevent rust. Having seen the
> practice, it is impossible to get the oil
> out.


Belpaire@aol.com

A steam tractor enthusiast who knew the owner of
the tractor that exploded said it was coal-fired.
He also told WKYC the hot liquid people felt was
actually hot water mixed with soot.


sjhussar@aol.com

More photos from the scene. It is reported that it had tree branches in it's wheels and is said to have launched 15 feet in the air. One marginal picture in the gallery shows what appears to be the top of the boiler still intact including the steam dome and engine assembly.



photo link