Here's the problem with Ross's exploits.

I had occasion to talk to the former CNJ trainmaster recently who had to assist with one of Ross's trips back in the 60's. He inquired about the plan, the power and the consist and then- having hired on after steam-called in his father as an ad hoc consultant.

The old head head heard what what was to pull the consist and said "won'
t happen"-and advised the son to send the power out ahead, because the grade out of Ashley was pretty brutal and so if any coaches couldn't take a shove-he'd be safe. He thought they might not make it past Laurel Run junction.

The trainmaster trusted his Dad's judgment, in spite of protestions that there'd be no problems. As it was-some ne'er do wells decided to grease the rails in order to see the drivers spin.

The story was related to me without bitterness (ok, its almost 40 years ago) but I could see that there was a problem in the planning of the "exploit". Ross's operation wasn't guided by the practicalities of experience and concern for the continuity of operations on the host road-but bravado. There've been a lot of guys on a lot of roads who've made the exploits possible, who by nature didn't seek notoriety- so when you discuss exploits-remember a lot of professional railroaders made them possible. It was hardly a one man show.

Can people just come in and help work on the 1361? If so whould I? I'm 17 years old, tall and skinny, fit into small places and have been working on steam engines for five years now. If I can help I will drive from Toms River NJ to Scranton to help out as much as I can! On another note a few of my buddies and I were thinking. When the 1361 is running would there be a chance she could come back to the NY&LB where she spent her last days to make a run or two?

Unfortunately Eric, you will have to contact me again when you are 18. That's one of the Steamtown rules I can't bend!

Thanks

Scott

Eric:

If you are not aware- there are federal safety restrictions on minors in industrial settings. Because of your age-you are more than likely not going to be allowed in the shop.

I would suggest however, that if you are interested in volunteering, start in interpretive. Do the following:

1.) Show up when you say you will. Stay the whole "shift" and focus on what you are doing (i.e., no cameras, mp3 players, goofing off, etc)

2.) Be courteous to visitors.

3.) Be willing to learn-be patient.

4.) In general, if you make a good impression as somebody who's responsible, mature, reliable and all those other boy scout traits, then when you past the age- you participate in things that are restricted to you now.

Not for a minute do I think that a major operation like Steamtown, CSRM, WMSR, etc, can or should be run by volunteers. But at the same time, there's a difference between not having volunteers running the place and not letting volunteers lift a finger behind the scenes or in the shop. Or, for that matter, having a group offering to come in and "touch up" the badly-decaying paint on their "pet" locomotive and being told to write out a check for the pros to do it instead. And, yes, there are some things, like boiler repair, that need to be left to the pros. Still......



That isn't a "volunteer" issue. The issue there is the difference between private enterprise versus public. Gentle hint, folks: The Grand Canyon, Strasburg, etc. don't have a NEED for volunteers, thanks to a combination of business acumen and a bit of luck in the location/market. Were that I could say the same for our favorite "whipping boys"..............


As for my mistaken assumptions on volunteers on the 1361 project: Okay, my bad, pass the crow sauce. Brain f@rt, as it were. At the same time, however--and I agree this applies to any organized preservation effort that isn't utter chaos--I'd be interested in seeing the "vetting" process for volunteers. I'm pretty sure that if I found myself unexpectedly cooling my heels in Scranton for several days twiddling my thumbs, I wouldn't be able to pop in and do a few hours' work for the project, no matter what my level of expertise. By contrast, I was allowed to chip in with no notice on a couple of "my" locomotives in the UK back in 1991, even though the one was deep in a chemical plant.

On the contrary Mr. Mitchell, if we simply take the time to get you "signed up", then you could come by just about any time you wished. I'm not sure I would make a habit of completely unannounced visits as it would seem to be a better use of my crew's time and yours to know in advance that you were coming. We would welcome the help. By the way, I lost a welder today - anyone interested in a job?

Thanks

I am aware but I was hoping there was away around it. I've worked on just about every part of a steam locomotive doing everything from wire brushing a part to using a milling machine. Trust me I am not one of those kids that comes out with headphones on and I DEFINITELY am not going to be out there to take pictures. I don't take pictures. I have put in about 2,000 hours at two museums and probable 80-90% of those are in the shop with the rest as conductor or brakeman. To me if all I'm going to be doing is standing around watching or grabbing tools for people then I'm not going to drive the two hours to get there. I want to get my hands dirty working to save our history. Thanks for the information. So how about my question about the NY&LB?

One: "coveted pension" doesn't exist anymore. The current federal retirement plan "FERS" is a defined contribution type plan. Nobody goes sailing into the sunset anymore with scrupulously saving for it.

Two: You keep asserting a variety of deficiencies in Steamtown such as excess staffing. Tell me in detail, how many employees are there currently, how many should be there, who'd you'd cut and why. Otherwise, the statement is a nebulous canard.

Three: The problems facing Steamtown are not completely unique. How will private management figure out a way to maintain mainline operations to the scope and scale you desire(how many trips would you want) , maintain a sufficient fleet of mechanically ready locomotives (how many should that be?) while overcoming the cost that are squeezing everybody (fuel and insurance)

Instead of bandying about charges of mismanagement-put together a business plan (with specifics regarding visitation, equipment, operations, etc) and publish it on the web for public scrutiny.

Contact me offline and I'll give you the name of the person to contact.

Eric,

The only way I can possibly answer your question about where the K4 would run is to say something I have said to others before. We will entertain running 1361 wherever a fiscally sound and physically possible proposal is made to do so. Neither of those criteria will be met easily and we will not go anywhere that doesn't meet both. I'm not trying to be deliberately vague, I promise you.

Thanks

I think Brother Mitchell pointed out very correctly that the NPS is unable to do anything without spending a lot more than a private operation. Ten years ago when working for a large chemical company a friend in purchasing told me that it was costing the company $60 to issue a purchase order and pay the bill.

If I ordered a $20 hammer the real cost for the company was $80. I told my buddy I was shocked and he laughed and said that Uncle Sam was running 2-3 times as much to issue the same purchase order and pay the bill. So the same hammer that cost my company $80 was costing the taxpayers $150. Now keep in mind that was 10 years ago.

If the folks at XYZ tourist railroad and museum buy that same hammer they are probably paying very little overhead and the hammer costs about $20. Or better yet they have a friend who works for the FEDs who orders an extra hammer and gives it to them. After all if one hammer costs $150 and two hammers cost $170 you might was well buy three or more.

As,if and when the Dep't. of the Interior orders S'town disposed of I will be glad to submit a response to an RFP that will no doubt be issued by the new Landlord(most likely Lackawanna County). Some of the available economies are glaringly evident and others are more subtle. To take the time and effort to write such a plan now would be a TOTAL waste of time.
If the opportunity presents itself I'll be there,as I believe the place has exciting potential despite its very poor location as a Tourist attraction.
I would also urge all who can to volunteer and lend a hand working on the 1361. There's lots to do and lots to learn and a unique opportunity to work in what must be the finest steam shop in the Nation.
All projects are the result of a team effort-anyone whose ever done anything knows that!
Ross Rowland

A curiousity question for Scott - Will the K4 be equipped with a diesel box and MU receptacles?

So far as the cost, I could not agree more! The White Pass and Yukon Route railroad operates( and maintains) some 10 trains per day(6 months a year) over some 32 miles of regularly operated over track(to class 4 rail standards), a progressive track improvement program, insurance, 17 or 19 historic locomotives, almost 70 passenger cars, a gift shop, locomotive shop, car shop, air brake shop, maint. of way equipment shop, remote (way into Canada) maint. of way crews, offices...etc with hundreds of full time employees (and mostly union making an average of $25 per hour+insanely good beni's) all spanning two countries in the middle of no where........and all for a total operations budget of about 8 million. So how is it so much can be done for 8 when steam town can do so very very little for 5.
What are TVRM's yearly operating costs? And, they get no federal or any other sort of tax payer money on a yearly basis. While they have fewer interpretive exhibits (those things that cost virtually nothing after the initial build/install cost) they manage to make more and more happen on a yearly basis in the area of operations.
Point of FACT, YES FACT, being that if the 5 million budget were spent in a manner more in keeping with an operation that makes the most of every cent (without doing this in a manner that reduces the pace of progress) then there would be so very much more for the American public to see. And, maybe....just maybe, a positive “must see" reputation would develop for s'town and result in it becoming a destination for what could be an ever growing number of families on their summer vacations.

And lastly, when one bashes another in a manner that is based solely upon successes that were not everlasting....let alone things from 4 decades ago (is that not looked down upon in the political campaign world.....known as smear tactics?), it shows a great deal of jealousy and this is not a good look on anyone. So, just step back and imagine that some gomer in a corn field were spending 5 mil a year taking care of a large collection of items from eBay and machinetools.com. You would have something very similar to steam town!

Eric,
I can fully understand and appreciate your wish to "get you hands dirty" saving history-BUT consider this:
Finding good knowledgeable people to tell the story of these machines is very, very difficult. The right interpreter can inspire the casual visitor to a higher level of understanding and appreciation for our passion. This awakening can inspire support (MONEY) that would otherwise not be there. Honing your skills to be able to talk to the average Joe about railroading, especially steam railroading will be extreemely valuable in the future. Plus, the other crew folks will get to know you, and find that you are a valuable, knowledgeable, reliable person--that will open many many doors for you.
I will admit that years ago I decided that "wrenches" were out there, but interpreters, those who can relate to the public KNOWLEDABLY were scarce, so that's what I started doing. This has led to a lot of different museum careers, including cosmetically restoring some very significant dismals (well, they're historic too), and I am now the curator for a group of museums. Unfortunately I don't get to do much railroad stuff now, but pay no attention to that result!! :)
Steamcerely,
David Dewey