I think you totally hit the nail on the head here. I became an NRHS member at the age of 14 (in flagrant violation of their age restrictions at the time), and when I get my 25 year pin in 2009, I’m sure I’ll be one of the youngest members ever to do so. I still maintain my chapter affiliation from my old hometown in Florida, out of loyalty to those who took me in as a kid as one of their own.
But, I am not convinced that the days of the large rail fan group aren’t eclipsed. I agree that the internet, video, and other sources have possibly rendered the “train buff telephone net” obsolete. One can chase trains and find out most of what they know in private, without a group of foamers around.
However, I’d be sad to see that day come. I don’t want to see an end to a group that still puts on conventions (finally went to my first, last summer in Portland, a short drive from my home) and has a good preservation effort in all kinds of locations on behalf of its members. I think the NRHS needs to quickly adapt, though, and I hope they have people looking into the future of the organization.
It sure as heck isn’t with meeting at a Lions club hall with slide projector. Those days will die with the older people currently making up a large percentage of the group…

P51's point is so valid. I was the guest speaker not long ago at the monthly meeting of a well known NRHS group in one of our largest cities. Of the audience of roughly 100 folks I was one of the youngest and I'm collecting my S.S. retirement checks! If there were 10 people in the audience under 50 it was a lot and no one under say 30. That's the scary truth of our "hobby" and I wish there was an easy solution!
Ross Rowland ........no s please...........

$200 for a dismal train ride? The $50 I hear proposed for a ride behind Reading steam loco 2101 in the Pacific NorthWest now sounds like a bargain!
Your experience may differ, but it seemed to me that until very recently, the founding members of the various NRHS chapters were still running things, and help from we of the younger generation (b. 1951) wasn't needed. Of course, we weren't learning anything about how to take over after their deaths.

We hear ya there, Ross! I have to ask the question, though, that is the NRHS is mostly over the age of 50, and there doesn’t seem to be any serious infusion of new members who are much younger, where are all the younger train buffs? I know they’re out there. Every time I see 4449 steam up or 2100 rolling around Tacoma, most of the folks I see are well under the age of 50. It’s pretty rare to see someone old enough to draw retirement hanging around. Young railfans ARE out there, we all see them, but the NRHS isn’t making any serious efforts to recruit them. When I was active with the chapter in Florida, the next youngest guy was 16 or so years older than I was. And I don’t think they have a single member who can’t legally drink a beer (aside from family memberships, that is).

I am also 30, and the NRHS does not interest me either. The reason is image. The NRHS is just not cool. I joined 5 years ago because I had an interest in operating steam, and the organization wouldn't let me run without a national membership. So I grudgingly sent in the check. Since then, I have enjoyed operating a small steam locomotive for a growing tourist line in NC. I see the next generation of historic railroaders on every trip, the kids that are growing up on Thomas. There are TONS of them, and they are enthralled at a real, honest-to-goodness steam locomotive. The most rewarding experience I have had during my involvement with the NRHS is bringing that experience to the kids. Thats cool.

But the railfan image, that of a middle-aged/older man who still lives in his mother's basement, who is overweight (and covered in RR pins) and hasn't bought a new shirt in 20 years, is just not cool. Label me a flamer if you wish, but what I describe is how many in my peer group *stereotype* railfans. Its an image. A POOR image that keeps younger folks from considering involvement.

What the NRHS needs is an image makeover. Like what Toyota did with the Scion brand. Same frikkin cars, new message. Have you seen the Military's new ad campaign? "Rocket Science is much more interesting when you have real rockets." Same mission, new perspective. Show the world that the NRHS is more than a bunch of nerds watching slide shows, show what historical preservation REALLY is. Its cool.

Mike
www.engine17.org

What a great posting. You can add to the items that MSM57095 listed the monthly meetings of some chapters, that are an exercise in chaos and unnecessary delays, and the circus atmosphere created by members who interrupt the guest speakers and try to make themselves the program. No great surprise the organization has a poor public image.

Boy that really strikes a familiar note! Back in the late 80's I joined the local NRHS Chapter. I offered to computerize the membership list and to do ticketing for their excursions. The president at the time actually told me that computers were a passing fad and he wasn't going to let HIS Chapter get taken over by a young know it all. Just go sit in the back sonny and watch Earl show his 8mm film of his summer vacation at Edaville.

I let my membership lapse in the early 1990's. By that time many of the officers of the Chapter I had first met were gone - replaced by other older members. These were guys who had been members for 30 or more years, but the Chapter officers never let them run anything. Now it was their chance and they wanted to run things as if it was still 1963. Last time I checked the membership went from a high of about 200 to today having about 60.

There is another issue that several of these really old NRHS Chapters have - money. I know of at least 4 NRHS Chapters in the PA-NJ-NY-CT area that are essentially inactive, have declining memberships and are sitting on a lot of money - anywhere from $30,000 to nearly $100,000. I have pitched several worthy projects to these people and have a grand total of $175 in "grants". I don't have a problem if you don't want to give to a project I think is important, but I worry what will happen to this money when some of these chapters dwindle to the last man?

"msm57095" is right on.

Image *is* very important. Ya gotta sell the sizzle in
order to sell the steak!

I remember what a priest said around 40 years ago,
when asking for people to volunteer as Sunday School
teachers:
[This is relevant to *all* organizations!]
"If the Church does not pass on its message to the younger
generation, it will be dead in one generation."

I have been in the NRHS since 1983, and I have also noticed
the same problem. There is no outreach to younger people.
This is a fatal flaw in any organization, no matter how
wonderful it is now. I think the problem stems from lack
of people who would take on this incredibly important job,
and not from lack of wanting to get the under-30 crowd
involved.

Please remember: most people nowadays have far less free
time than they did around 10 or 20 yeara ago. There are
a lot of important jobs that do not get done by volunteer
groups because of this. And lack of a comfortable amount
of disposable income is also a very big problem.

Margaret (SP fan)

Margaret beat me to it.

I myself am 34 years old. I have joined several RR organizations, but it has to stop somewhere. $20 here, $20 there plus the request to donate time to each. I have three young boys, a wife, and a house to support and pay for. It is difficult for anyone in my age range to afford the few extra dollars or extra time to be really involved with any group, be it railroads or otherwise.

The NRHS has never lit my fire. But I also don't spend money to subscribe to RR mags. I get most of my info from online sources.

I agree that the NRHS needs a make over. It also needs to open discussion with the newer organizations that have displaced or replaced NRHS chapters. But from the sounds of it who is left in the NRHS to do that?

I think one way to rejuvinate the NRHS is for it to become a clearing house for a national "self insurance" policy. They already point groups to an insurance broker, but what if the NRHS itself collected the fees and became self insured. It may allow many groups the opportunity to run excursions they can't currently afford on their own. If everyone that runs a museum, excursion, etc. pitched in what they currently pay to their brokers, would there be enough money to cover the liability?

CV

Question-why did the National allow the affairs of certain chapters to decline so precipitously ? I am thinking of a chapter whose rolling stock collection (including some significant pieces) is in danger of complete destruction. The same chapter also allowed a signature asset (a negative collection) to be mismanaged and pilfered.

Perhaps the NRHS should be allowed to pass into oblivion. One has to wonder if the folks that used to populate the group did more harm than good as follows:

This tale was told as part of a slide show by a manager of the
property under discussion.

For many years, a railroad company with HQ in NYC would get all sorts of nasty letters addressed to the company president complaining about (among other things) the loss of the company's entire 4-6-4 roster, etc. Donate this, donate that...blah blah blah.

Long story short-somebody in senior management has secreted away a pristine example of a post war sleeper car after the most recent wave of passenger train discontinuances,etc. This was at the system shop located some distance north of NYC. As was the custom, this president liked to make surprise inspections all about the property and happened to cross paths with this sleeper car in all its glory.'

Twenty four hours later, the car had been run over by a bulldozer-and that was that. Somebody was made to choose between the car-or their career.
Simple choice-eh ?

Safe to say that the NRHS never built much credibilty in the eyes of the railroads or railroad suppliers. Anyone care to argue the point?

Dave

The image of a the NRHS that is held by a lot of folks is a bunch of guys who meet once per month at watch slides or movies. Did anyone ever see that scene in "The Station Agent"?

I posted the initial thread here in response to an inquiry regarding the tardiness of the NRHS in distributing information and hand-outs that were due their members. The thread, like many others recently, branched off into another area.

I'm an NRHS member through memberships in two RR historical societies. I am not an "active" member, but I did participate actively in the 1998 NRHS convention in Syracuse which I believe was a success. I recall large crowds at all the events at that time.

I don't feel the remarks about the NRHS "not reaching out" to young people are not quite correct. The NRHS does sponsor a "railcamp" which has recently been expanded to include the western point of the country. This is in the form of a scholarship. Young participants can now experience rail restoration at either Steamtown or the Nevada Northern.

I think the lack of recruitment of young people is not only unique to the NRHS, but to almost all societies. I belong several groups, and the problems mentioned here on this thread are heard throughout them also. Once again, the mantra is: "theres a lot of things to get done, but not a lot of people to do them".

And finally, lets not forget the NRHS is also unique in it's grants program, which awarded 12 grants in 2005 totalling $32,000.00.

I don't think by simply saying that it's a young vs old thing that paints a true picture of the problems with the NRHS.

NRHS grants program: With all due respect, the NRHS is NOT "unique" in that program; Amherst Railway Society, a well-respected New England group, annually distributes about $30-32,000 in grants. And while the grants are made to groups primarily (but not exclusively) in New England, ARS is not a national organization with a five-figure membership.

There are other grant-making programs at other groups that rival the NRHS program.

The Railcamp program is one of the best things to come along in decades, and if the national NRHS was to do nothing else beside expand and promote that program, it would create something lasting and extraordinary.

And Amherst Railway Society is one of the funders of the Interchange with searchable archive that you are now reading. RyPN thanks Amherst most sincerely for the kind support.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thread go the course without taking on a life of it’s own.
I thought about Rail Camp when I wrote my first response, but that affects, what, a couple of dozen or so kids nationwide every year? I don’t think anyone would seriously consider that to be any real attempt to infuse the organization with new blood. When I joined at 14, I did so against NRHS rules. I don’t know how the chapter I belonged to fudged the books, but the cutoff age was 18 then. Ironically, the NRHS later lowered the minimum age, and my chapter voted to raise the chapter minimum age to 18!
And as for other groups dealing with similar issues with age, I disagree. I’m also into older military airplanes, and the museums I deal with at air shows and such have memberships that probably average out in the mid to late 30s. I defy you to show me any NRHS chapter that can say that.

I’m still an NRHS member, but to honest, it’s mostly out loyalty to a small group in Florida that accepted me as a kid. Were it not for them, I’d have dropped my membership when I left Florida for good. The idea of joining up with a chapter near where I am in the Pacific Northwest is something that has never crossed my mind, nor will it. I disagree that access to steam is what has derailed the new blood. I think holding on to a group that was (in all the time I was an active member) mostly for retirees and the “middle aged men who live in their parent’s basements,” will soon be self-defeating when they start dying off in large numbers. I feel very concerned for the future of the NRHS.