It is currently Thu Aug 13, 2026 6:09 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 76
Location: St. Louis, MO
I searched for one of the coupling knives at the Museum today, but since we have no space to exhibt these small items, I can't locate one. That sort of stuff is spread around in about three locations. I have some folks searching for one, however.
I did spend some time searching the patent files (We have most of the ACF patent files that go back to the 1840's). I didn't locate a patent for the "knife", but did find a patent issued in 1882 to a "Richard Bishop of St. Louis, Mo." on an improvement to link and pin drawbars which was supposed to make them virtually automatic.
If and when I come up with something, I'll post it.
When the late Dr. Roberts was working for the Frisco, he made a trip in a business car through Okalhoma, Texas and Kansas, and came back to St. Louis with the car almost full of link and pin drawbars, links and pins and other old hardware. It seems to me that was when he obtained the "knives."
I was a switchman, and I'd go along with the idea that if the road required the use of such a device, it would repose in a back pocket. Those old timers were proud of their ability to handle cars with out the use of "new fangled tools."
Danska


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
Dennis Storzek said, "... To carry such a stick would be cumbersome ..."

I did not say the left-handed monkey wrench was fiction per se, since a monkey wrench is a real artifact ... It is the "left-handed" part that elevates the very real wrench to the realm of parody and fiction.

Likewise, a brake club - my stick - was (is) an everyday tool.

Coupling knives may exist. Your "Bishop's Safety Coupling Knife", however, in the context of the quoted prose ... well, look all you want ... I tend not to mine literature for patents.

_________________
Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:23 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Who said anything about patents? Lot’s of stuff has been made and sold over the years but never patented, indeed most of the products I manufacture are not patented, and those that are aren’t sold under the name on the patent.

The man asked what a Bishop’s Safety Coupling Knife might be. We’ve substantiated that coupling knives, as a generic category, did exist, and have presented a pretty good explanation of their use, even if it is only to wear in one’s pocket.

That’s not bad for an obscure tool that likely hasn’t ever been used in the last hundred years.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:12 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Just because the piece was written as a parody doesn’t mean that the writer didn’t incorporate actual objects from his everyday experience, and unless there is something in the actual Masonic ceremony (and I thought these things were supposed to be secret...
Not all Masonic ceremonies and rituals are secret. The laying of the first stone of the Baltimore & Ohio RR was accompanied by appropriate Masonic procedures in a very famous and public affair. Artists were even allowed to paint pictures of the goings-on, including representations of the high Masons in their regalia! In the B & O museum is a silver trowel used in the ceremony. Was it provided by the local Lodge?
Is it possible that a new Mason is presented with something that looks a bit like a "safety coupling knife"? I don't think that "Bishop" is the title of a Masonic official, so I wonder if this railroad style parody of a Masonic ceremony also used the brand name of an actual contemporary railroad tool as a parody of a slightly similar looking Masonic implement.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
So call me a heretic ... I didn't see anything in this thread that established their existence yet.

_________________
Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:53 pm
Posts: 660
Anyone ever read "Foucault's Pendulum?" Are you laughing as hard as I am at this thread?

JAC


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
What makes it really surreal, John, is that I'm typing my replies between Thomas runs! It's a strange, strange world ...

_________________
Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
S. Weaver wrote:
So call me a heretic ... I didn't see anything in this thread that established their existence yet.


Here is what John H. White Jr. says about this subject in his book, “The American Railroad Freight Car.” It seems to fit the spirit of the prose at the top of this thread like a glove.

Direct quote from page 499 talking about the safety issue surrounding link and pin couplers:

“This does not mean that car builders were unwilling to deal with the coupler problem in small ways. A few halfway measures were at least attempted. Sticks or wooden paddles were issued to all workers required to connect cars. The stick was to lift and guide the link into the coupler pocket and so eliminate the dangerous manual operation. Some railroads mandated the use of the safety paddles, and whenever the superintendent was present, the men faithfully obeyed the orders. The instant he retired, the men place the paddles back inside their neat black leather sheathes and grabbed hold of the links as God intended them to do. Forney could not understand the trainmen’s “violent opposition” to the use of coupling sticks. It was for their own good, but the men felt that it reflected badly on their professional competence and manhood. Only a sissy or unseasoned hand would use the paddles; the veteran trainman was too brave and dexterous to need them.”

RTK


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:11 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
Despite the whimsical nature of the Freemasons' prose, I think we have established that there was such a thing as a safety coupling knife or paddle, although the “Bishop’s” brand has not been confirmed. Apparently they were made of either wood, or metal with a wooden handle. The necessity for the device and the logic of its construction is perfectly clear. Mr. White mentions the reluctance to use the device because trainmen were too proud. I wonder if another reason might have been the physical difficulty of using the device. It would certainly have been safer, but lifting the heavy link would require more effort because of the leverage disadvantage resulting from extending your reach with the length of the knife.

If there was a Bishop’s Safety Coupling Knife, it was probably illustrated and advertised in the “Railroad Gazette.” Mr. White’s information that I posted yesterday is footnoted from that source as well as from “Railroad Magazine.”

Mr. White points out another interesting drawback to the link and pin couplers in his book, “The American Railroad Freight Car.” That is the feature or having detachable parts coupled with the fact that there was no guaranteed interchangeability between the links, pins, and housings of the many manufacturers. This motivated crews to build their own inventory of the variety of links and pins, so they would have the ones that were needed to couple to cars that were missing links and pins. And of course cars were often missing links and pins because crews stripped them off in order to build their inventories of spares.

RTK


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Missing Links and Pins
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Ron Travis wrote:
This motivated crews to build their own inventory of the variety of links and pins, so they would have the ones that were needed to couple to cars that were missing links and pins. And of course cars were often missing links and pins because crews stripped them off in order to build their inventories of spares.
Articles in "Railroad Magazine" about 1960 mentioned the "iron box" at the rear of the tender for holding the supply. Cars on remote interchange tracks and "iron boxes" on locomotives leaving the crews' control would be stripped in favor of the personal supply. Pity the poor extra list crew who gets a loco fresh from the shop and next has to pull the interchange track!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
[quote="J
Is it possible that a new Mason is presented with something that looks a bit like a "safety coupling knife"? I don't think that "Bishop" is the title of a Masonic official, so I wonder if this railroad style parody of a Masonic ceremony also used the brand name of an actual contemporary railroad tool as a parody of a slightly similar looking Masonic implement.[/quote]

A new candidate for Masonry is presented with the "working tools" of Masonry, none of which bear any resemblance to the features ascribed a "coupling knife".

I am convinced that such a tool did, indeed, exist. As a 32 degree Mason and Shriner, I have a feel for the prose-and I think this piece is a real peek into the culture and humor of railroad men about the turn of the last century. The ubsurdities are obvious, and funny, and like all good humor have a huge amount of truth.

I really wanna see one of those coupling knives.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:26 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
jim templin wrote:
A new candidate for Masonry is presented with the "working tools" of Masonry, none of which bear any resemblance to the features ascribed a "coupling knife".


Pardon my ignorance, but isn't one of the "working tools" of a Mason the trowel? I would suspect one of these coupling knives would look something like a trowel, without the offset handle.

Anyway, the inference may be a bit less direct; in the parody, the punch stands for honesty. I'm sure in Masonic imagery either the level or square represent that virtue.

Dennis

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
Dennis Storzek wrote:
jim templin wrote:
A new candidate for Masonry is presented with the "working tools" of Masonry, none of which bear any resemblance to the features ascribed a "coupling knife".


Pardon my ignorance, but isn't one of the "working tools" of a Mason the trowel? I would suspect one of these coupling knives would look something like a trowel, without the offset handle.

Anyway, the inference may be a bit less direct; in the parody, the punch stands for honesty. I'm sure in Masonic imagery either the level or square represent that virtue.

Dennis

You are correct, but the physical look of the masonic tools doesn't quite match the knife.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife...........He was a RR Man
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:25 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Prescott, AZ
I have read that once upon a time switchmen were issued a stick for the purpose, but most considered it "unmanly" and threw them away, continuing to use their hands.

I have used link & pin couplers quite a bit .... working in underground mines. And, I used my hands for coupling. Never have had any injuries, and believe me, a train of heavily-loaded ore cars are quite capable of inflicting similar damage to standard-gauge railcars.

My personal thoughts are that many of the injuries back in the good old days were caused by employee lifestyles. Brakemen and switchmen were notably hard-drinkers and carousers in that period and I believe that slow reactions were often to blame for missing fingers and hands and worse.

Skip
Grand Canyon Railway


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bishops Safety Coupling Knife -- on MKT, PRR, and WAB
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:23 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Harrisburg, Pa.
Greetings to all:

Some research shows that this story has surfaced in a number of forms, all substantially the same, over a long period of time. The names of individuals and railroads are changed, but the rhetoric is mostly the same.

The earliest reference I found was in 1894 when it appeared in a Wisconsin newspaper, referring to a practice used by Supt. Joe Maxwell of the MKT. The headline styles it as a "catechism," which, used here in parallel with a memorized doctrinal statement, seems apt. The applicant was supposed to say he was referred by "General Manager St. John of the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy" rather than the UP. The reference to a "Hinckley extension" has been deleted. The applicant's name in the oath section is "Steve Sears." The successful examination concludes with the applicant being told he will be sent to the "Trinity & Sabine division to take the mixed train there."

The next occurrence of it I found came in 1914 in a Fort Wayne, Ind., newspaper, referring to a practice on the PRR. As far as any masonic connections are concerned, this could be plausible here, as the PRR was known as a masonic railroad, with appointments and promotions in certain areas (Philadelphia, Altoona, perhaps others) being closely interwoven with, and dependent on, masonic membership.

In this one, the applicant was supposed to say he had been sent by "the general manager in the east." The reference to a "Hinckley extension" is changed to "Redstone extension" The applicant's name in the oath is "John Smith." The ritual ends with "You have the cigars" and makes no mention of a job assignment.

Another occurrence is reported in a Reno, Nevada, newspaper in 1915 (reprinted from a Sheridan, Wyo., newspaper), but the story has been changed to take place on the Wabash and the examination is given by "Supt. E.A. Gould." The referrer is "General Manager St. John of the Rock Island" and the applicant is "John Sears," who is required to swear "by the tail of the Great Black Cat," a clause that doesn't appear in the other accounts. The "Hinckley" or "Redstone" extension reference is replaced by "the Eel River Division." Finally, the successful applicant is promised an assignment on the "Covington Branch."

In all accounts, the Bob Ingersoll name remains unchanged.

Dan Cupper
Harrisburg, Pa.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: