Mr. Mitchell -

Sorry if it seems I was grousing! What I meant is that both the Pennsy and B&O had an active program to save steam. But by not including a PRR J1 or a B&O 4-8-2 or Yellowstone, the impression given to the public is that steam locomotive development ENDED with the last examples saved (the M1 4-8-2 on the Penny and the 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 types on the B&O). The J1 and the 4-8-2 or EM-1 would have been the EXCLAMATION point to the each railroads collection! So why not do it?

Your argument about the other railroads is a point well taken, but other railroads locomotive preservation programs usually consisted of what communities asked for. Western Maryland with two (one of which was requested by the B&O Museum), New York Central (one 4-8-2 to the MofT only because it happened to still be on the property) and D&H...Zip! Other railroad could be critisized too. The Soo did a very nice job saving steam, but no Mountains or Northerns. The NP likewise, but neither a Northern (which NP gave its name to for crying out loud) or a Yellowstone (likewise!) But most of these decisions was because the local town wanted an engine, and didn't really care what kind it was. Thus the heavier/bigger engines usually went to scrap for their greater value and the "littler" Consolidations or Pacifics ended up in parks.

So if you think I was grousing, I apologize. But I stand by what I said!

Les

Gentlemen,

While we are all deeply indebted to the B&O for gathering their collection together in the period from 1893-1953, the fact is that by the end of the 1950's, the B&O was a financial basket case. They could not afford to save ANY of their latter day steam power.

The fact is that neither 2-8-2 #4500 or 4-6-2 #5300 aka "President Washington" would exist today except for the intervention of the recently deceased scrap dealer, Edward Striegel. Mr. Striegel, who had started his railroad career on the B&O, purchased both engines from the railroad for scrapping, but had the sense of history to hold onto them until the railroad would take them back for the museum.

By 1961 the B&O was under the control of the C&O, which had its own preservation priorities. Another EM-1 was "hidden" in the Baltimore area with the intent of placing it in the museum. I've heard two stories about what happened. The first is that an over zealous accountant was tracking the scrapping of every last steam engine, found it and dispatched it to a scrapper. The second is that a history minded roundhouse foreman went on vacation, and his replacement had it cut up while he was gone.

In any event the net result is that no B&O Big Sixes, 4-8-2's or EM-1's survive, and our world is the poorer for that fact.

The Western Maryland is a perfect example of a railroad that did not save much. A pacific was offered to most or possibly all of the bigger cities with Hagerstown being the only one to accept. Elkins wanted an engine, preferably a H-9 consolidation, but eventually found no place to put it. The really sad part is the WM had all 12 of their 4-8-4s in the roundhouses in Cumberland and Hagerstown basically in operating condition into 1957 and scrapped them all without offering one to anybody. The worst though is the scrapping of pacific 204 still in coal thawing service at the port in Baltimore into the early sixties. The 204 was sold for scrap with the B&O muceum only a few miles away and the B&O owned most of the WM. I have often wished Mr. Striegel had stepped in and bought the 204 for scrap and held onto it like he did with the B&O and Reading engines.

John Bohon

When I was a kid a friend of my dad gave me a whole bunch of 1960's Trains Magazines and I seem to remember there being an article in there about the B&O Museum and how there was supposed to be an EM saved for the collection but alas it was scrapped.

Of course I was a kid along time ago and I could be wrong about that.

Steve

Uhh....there is one surviving D&RGW standard gauge steam locomotive, it's at CRM. "Unfortunately", it's NOT one of the later, more modern locomotives, but it is standard gauge. Follow the link for a photo.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=292672

That's The exception. I was SSLV #106.

... a water-filled quarry?

Rob

I always thought that scrap value was the reason that Southern Pacific donated lots of 0-6-0 switchers and not bigger engines. But in talking to an old SP manager I found that wasn't always the case. As Les mentions in his post, local towns wanted a locomotive for kids to play on but didn't care what kind. But they did care about how much space it would take up in their parks so small loco's were requested. So it made an 0-6-0 desirable. So we have tons of SP 0-6-0's but no MT's.

Sadly enough, one of the founders of the PLA was offered a chance to save a MT but was just out of college with no money and no clue where to park/store it. 10 years later the PLA started their museum at Castro Point and would have had a place to store it. Lots of preservation comes down to timing with the right set of circumstances.

The reason that the New York Central or the D&RGW didn't save any standard gauge steam was
Al Pearlman who was President of both railroads.

He ordered everything scrapped in both ceses.

Also, give the railroads a break, they were trying despretly to stay competitive with other lines in the new Diesel technology. and they had to scare up every dime they could lay their hands on.


Ted Miles

One of Tom Dill's books on the SP in Oregon shows an MT 4-8-2 stored in the Eugene roundhouse as late as 1961, ostensibly for a donation that never came..

Kinda like the four P-8 Pacifics hidded away in some warehouse near the Port of Houston.........

In one of the old B&O RR Museum guide booklets I have it mentions an EM-1 as a future exhibit. I don't know where it was stored but the story I was told was that someone sent it to scrap without asking questions and when this was discovered he was fired. In any case it was too late to save the loco.