Does anyone have more background on the shops and their current use etc.

This month's issue of Railfan (or maybe Trains) had an article on the Reading historical society and the work they're doing. They seem to be doing a great job and have a nice collection of equipment.

Reading (RR) the article, I was suprised to see that they are going to move into another structure, rather than the large shops in Reading. I don't really know any info on the organization or the shops, but I had somehow gotten the impression that they were trying to acquire that facility. The article had some photos taken there but seemed to not have a lot to say about the current status. It would certainly seem like a natural location for them. Then again, it may be worth far more than they can afford.

Can anyone shed any light on the matter?

Rick,

Thank you for the clarification on the first shop complex. It addresses my inquiry when I started this thread. The later complex was not an upgrade but a new facility.

Best Regards,

Randy Musselman

Aarne,

Next time you are traveling down I-80 you will be within 5 miles of our site and I would welcome a visit. We are just outside of Hubbard, the last exit on I-80 in Ohio. We have one of the largest stationary steam engines in captivity, you will be amazed.



If you saw the 643 undergoing restoration that was in the B&O Glenwood Shops. The 643 is now in storage in a well hidden building in McKees Rocks, not a part of the P&LE complex.[/url]

Do you happen to know what the plans are for the 643? Some sisters of the Baldwin were sold to the DM&IR and the engines are copies of a CB&Q design. Thus the 643 could logically serve as a "stand in" for either a Burlington "Colorado" or a Missabe 2-10-4, in addition to being a Bessemer & Lake Erie locomotive.

Les

Les,

Way back in the late 80's, if I recall correctly, when I volunteered in Altoona with the PRR 1361 restoration, I believe the 643's former owner, Glen Campbell visited us. I believe he said they made new pistons for her? I believe she was fully restored at that time, steamed but never went on the road. If properly stored, could they take her out today if she passed a hydro?

She is a monster and would suspect was used in low speed drag service.....perhaps 35-40 MPH max. With her smaller drivers and massive yawing forces from those immense cylinders, you are going to need some serious track structure to support operation. Perhaps other members could confirm my suspicion? This would be on par with get a C&O Allegheny back on the road. The Class I's or regionals may have some concerns here.

Maybe they could hang a huge train behind her and she could attack some serious grades with lots of curves but would she lay the rail over?

Putting that all aside it would be impressive to see her under full load. If a preservation group had a stationary dyno, that would be a creative way to see her operate! Large and in charge! (To be more creative, you could schedule dyno run times daily at peak electrical demand periods. Connect electric generators to the rollers and sell power to the grid at prime rates....a very unique peaking plant! It would help pay for coal and upkeep and provide resistance load for the locomotive.)

Randy Musselman

I talked to Glen recently. The 643 is still his, or should I say his group's. I don't know what their current plans are but they are still plugging away.

So who among us actually thinks that mainline track structure is inferior today to the track structure from say 1950? Today's mainlines utilize 132 and 136 pound rail made of high strength steel, welded joints, sitting on a couple of feet of limestone ballast. Track in 1950 was 131 or 155 pound of a lower strength steel, joints every 39 feet, on perhaps not as deep of a roadbed. Bottom line is todays mainlines are just as good if not far better than mains of 1950.

The one problem that the 643 might encounter would be tight gauge on curves due to 643's longer wheelbase.

I think her best bet for opreration would be in a program similar to the 1225. Run her back and forth over a length of track and give several generations of Pittsburghers the experience of sitting behind the throttle of a really BIG locomotive.

Randy -

I sure like your creative thinking!

Les

Into the late Eighties, the shop was still owned by what was left of the Reading Company. The Reading Tech made an arrangement which allowed them to occupy the Machine shop end of the complex in return for keeping the property clean, etc. At the time the asking price for the Machine shop & Erecting shop was too high for the Society and City support was sadly lacking. Lots of interesting projects went on during this time which included Reading Tech, ARHS, and Blue Mountain & Reading. Eventually a minority owned freight car repair business obtained loans that allowed them to purchase the buildings which they used for tank car cleaning/repair and some DOD car repainting. They never really had a lot of business and when it finally tanked (no pun intended), the buildings were sold to the plumbing supply business located across the street from the shop.

At that point rail access and some structures and drop table were removed. The turntable which provided access to the Erecting shop bays was scrapped. I think some, but not all of the cranes remain, but I don’t believe they are used. Also, the locomotive lifting cradle used which dated from steam days, but was also used to lift diesels was scrapped as well.

It might be a natural location for a museum; but there are plenty of reasons why it doesn’t work well with the Society’s current goals. Also, there was no formal plan or funding options in place, or local political support when the building was available.

Theoretically I suppose it would be possible, but because of new FRA rules instituted since her restoration, her steaming up is impossible. She would need Form 4 work done, requiring extensive teardown.

One of my vivid memories of a visit to the Reading Shops complex during the time that the BM&R and the Reading Tech folks were using them involves the overhead cranes. They were planning to lift a CF-7 and move it from one of the erecting bays down the length of the building. By that time, the electrical system to power the crane was no longer functional. So they had a big welder on a dilapidated truck, from which they strung the cables up to the crane, and as the CF-7 flew down the shop, the old truck snarled and backfired its way down the shop beneath the crane.

The old Santa Fe shops in Cleburne, Texas (where rolling stock and steam locomotives were built and CF7s rebuilt from F7s) is still mostly intact and being used by Gunderson Industries. The boilerhouse and stack are still standing but are gutted; the turntable is still there, but the roundhouse is gone:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q ... =addr&om=1

The old Katy (or is it Cotton Belt?) Shops in Waco are also still standing. There is a great website that has current pictures and historic pictures, including a locomotive being suspended from a crane; but I don't have it handy. I also have some pictures I took from a visit a year or so ago; the Boilerhouse is gutted as is the shop building, but there is still a huge compressor in place. The overhead cranes (biggest is 250 tons, I think) are also still in place.

The former Bethlehem Steel Plant in Beaumont was building hopper cars under Trinity Industries as late as 2001; but it appeared to be idle when I passed through a year or so ago. It has a decent sized erecting hall with overhead crane(s).

I know they were still used by the Reading company technical and historical society as late as 1988, I was there in the shops the day they were prepping the 5513 and 5308 for the 1988 excursion to tamaqua, there was still some BM&R and anthracite railroads historical society stuff there too.

There is a thread on the practical machinist forum about the Boston & Maine shops complex: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/an ... ry-277467/

P&LE shop complex has been leveled and is in the process of being 're-developed.'

Dave

All three large steam shops in Michigan have survived, and are in use as warehouses or transshipment facilities: the GTW (1908) at Battle Creek, the PM (c. 1922) at Wyoming, and the MCRR at Jackson. The MC shop was heavily damaged by fire in the 1970's, but was re-roofed and is now the Miller heavy trucking firm. Evidently those big overhead cranes continue to make these buildings valuable, especially to steel and equipment haulers. I think the little MCRR backshop at Niles is still standing, too, but disused. The roundhouse at Niles is in use by small businesses, but the only other significant roundhouse still standing in Michigan may be one third of the PM Saginaw house, in use by a short line.

Aarne Frobom