Brother Mitchell, does this mean that in the photo charters you've signed up for that you, as a paying participant, haven't had any fun?

In counting several of these organizers as friends, I'd say that the 48 hours of "fun" had by the organizers in a charter are well deserved after over some 2,000 hours of planning, organizing, negotiating, and so forth with the end result being 50 happy customers and no money left in the bank, having spent it all for the steam locomotive, freight cars, travel expenses, food, etc...

Next time they do a charter with the 1225 in Michigan, you and I can be on the road crew blocking crossings ;)

KL

I am curious about the distinction you make in your above comment. When you say YRE is not pro-war, do you mean pro-war in the sense of simply liking the action of war, or do you mean in the sense of supporting the Iraq war? I ask because many, if not most, who are vehemently opposed to the Iraq war say they support the troops, but they oppose their mission. And I doubt that any of the troops find solace in this have-it-both-ways position, since they believe in the mission. After all, they are risking their lives for it.

RTK

Perhaps I'm reading this whole concept incorrectly, but from the info contained in the YRE site the idea is more about a celebration of 230 years of this nations armed forces than a specific conflict, isn't it?

I was 14 years old when the American Freedom Train came to Tacoma Wa. pulled by the 4449, and I'm sure there were people who didn't agree with some of the politics that were involved in some of the artifacts on display, but I don't think that detracted from the idea of promoting patriotism and celebrating the bicentennial, plus the fact that there was not one of us in the class that took the tour that wasn't amazed with what we saw, as well as the Big Steam that propelled it.
My Dad and Uncle are both WWII Vets, I think I'll ask them what they think. Good Luck Mr. Rowland, I hope it's everything the AFT was....Dave Thon

Yes,it's about 3 centuries of this experiment called democracy and how critically important it has been to our progress as a nation to have had citizens who were willing to answer The Call To Duty in time of need.
The 10 exhibit cars will each be devoted to 3 decades of our national history starting with car 1 -1720-1750,car 2 -1750-1780 and so on.
This time the moving walkway will be in the center of the car to take advantage of the tremendous entertainment technologies now available to us that didn't exist in 1973 (i.e., surround sound,3 dimensional hallography,3D audio animatronics,smell-a-vision etc.)
As you journey through the story of 3 centuries of the American story (takes 22 minutes to go through all 10 cars) you'll be very moved by the historically accurate presentation of how we've met each major challenge in our nations history by coming together and by answering The Call To Duty.
As was the case with the American Freedom Train the 10 cars will be rich in ORIGINAL artifacts/memorabilia helping illustrate/amplify the exhibits.
Much more will be shown/explained on the YRE website in the coming weeks.
Again,thanks to all for your encouraging words and ideas.
Best regards, Ross Rowland

This should be a great project and I'm looking forward to reading more about it.

Alexander,

There's at least one bio-diesel fired locomotive in operation in the U.S. already, Mt. Washington's No. 9 "Waumbek":

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/news/news.html#biodiesel

In fact, this locomotive also features a Lempor exhaust and other thermodynamic improvements.

I'm reasonably certain any locomotive (steam or diesel) that burns diesel fuel can burn bio-diesel with no modifications. Several tourist RR's using heavy oil fired steamers have switched to diesel in recent years so the types of modifications to optimize that are fairly well known. The Grand Canyon is one that's gone this route.

Another point is that bio-diesel is much more refined than is necessary for firing in a steamer. Diesels have pretty rigid fuel requirements and a lot of work goes into taking vegetable oil and making it suitable for pumping through close-tolerance fuel injection pumps and fuel injectors in diesel engines. If there was a sufficient market for it, they could probably come up with a much less refined (and therefore cheaper) bio-fuel for use in oil fired boilers.

Hugh Odom
The Ultimate Steam Page
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp

Currently fighting the problems caused by a very variable quality of waste oil fuel, in this case one high in smoke and low in BTUs, I'd love to find a biofuel that would replace it a comparable cost.

Watching with great interest, Ross. I hope as a technician you will consider making a complete combustion system retrofit, perhaps with Nigel's guidance, to accomodate the new fuel. As a showman, I am fascinated with your adaptation of new theatrical technologies as well.

"Make no small plans........"

dave

I understand that YRE celebrates a broad historical perspective regarding support for the troops. But I asked the question about what Ross means by saying that YRE is pro-troops, but not pro-war as it pertains to this text quoted from his website:

"Moving forward to today, our nation is now engaged in a Global War On Terrorism which is, by its very nature, taking us into unchartered waters, and demanding of us commitment, ingenuity and perseverance at levels never before experienced. Some things are already crystal clear, including the facts that, in order for us to win this war, the continued patriotism, sacrifice and bravery of our young men and women will be required to capably fill the ranks of our all-volunteer military, and the American people must remain steadfast in their support of this critical mission. I believe that there exists today a deep national appreciation for the job being done by our military forces, and a desire on the part of a large majority of our citizens to express this gratitude in a personal way."


RTK

Precisely my point, as a matter of fact.

I've already received forwarded e-mails of the "boy, look what this loser is up to again!" nature, saying that the YRE project is all a scam to get 614 running so Rowland can "play engineer" again, ego trip, etc.

Carl Franz, on every photo charter of his I've been on, begins/began every trip by thanking, in tongue-in-cheek fashion, all the participants that "paid me a whole bunch of money so I can go out and have some fun!" The important things to note, however, are that 1) it's all voluntary; 2) it's a win-win situation for all, provided that the organizer doesn't lose too much money, if any, and the railroad knows what it's getting into; and 3) someone went to the effort to provide an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't be there. All three conditions applied to the American Freedom Train and perhaps to the Chessie Steam Specials and Southern/NS steam programs; perhaps we may end up saying the same about this proposed project, should it come off.

I do believe I can say that I've never heard of any steam preservation project of this ilk where "personal enrichment" of a financial goal was part of the mission. Were that I could say the same about every short line or other railroad project. Andy Muller, Jerry Jacobsen, Xanterra, the Biegerts, and even the Strasburg RR stockholders all could find much easier and more efficient ways of making money than historic steam. If Rowland can pull this off with no taxpayer monies, more power to him and his salesmanship abilities.

Supporting the troops has nothing to do with political approval of one or another military entanglement. A mistake we made as a society several years ago was to confuse the individual soldier (who really does not have any say in the matter, except with his vote) with United States policy in French Indochina. We are at least trying not to make that mistake this time. I do not believe that any thoughtful person would view Brother Levin's Army - Navy Game operation as a specific political statement on any of the current entanglements and Brother Rowland’s proposal should be viewed in the same vein - as honoring those who have been given what is a really horrible job and tried to do it to the best of their ability. This should simply not be confused with either support or disapproval of the policies of the temporary help we hire to manage the country.

GME

Guys, you know this is going to get locked as you sink into a political debate. Can we get back on the proposal concerning a steam hauled train which will carry the concept that all our military deserves recognition for putting their hides on the line? The concept of the train (in my opinion) is to create a popular venue to which the public will bring their families. Revolution to Iraq, whether you are a pacifist or hawk, the fact that Americans have put themselves in harms way to save our ideals, is a noble concept to honor.

Now, if you have a problem with Ross Rowland writing renovation of 614 into this proposal, I guess that's you issue. 614 is hardly a basket case locomotive. It is a model of steam locomotive efficiency, and it needs work. How else would you expect to bring it back online? Grants are always being written to included support for the writer, and I see this as no less different. Until you establish a historic preservation lottery in this country, similar to Great Britain's, you better stake your hopes for rail preservation on a lot of brownie bakes or hope Bill Gates gets the steam itch. Then there is the proverbial Power Ball ticket that railfans never seem to hit.

If you can come up with a more practical means of underwriting locomotive servicing and renovation, I'd suggest you write it up and copywrite it. Otherwise, you might just want to stand on the side lines with your camera as the train passes.

What debate? All I did was ask what Ross meant by saying that YRE is pro-troops, but not pro-war. It must be an important distinction in the branding of YRE or Ross would not have mentioned it. I understand what he means by pro-troops, but I have no idea what he means by not pro-war because there are multiple, conflicting meanings attached to that term.

If it was OK for Ross to bring it up, I don’t see how my asking for a clarification can be out of bounds.

RTK

It is a good question, and it does not have to lead into a political debate.

In fact, the comment that he's pro-troops, but not pro-war is a way of avoiding political debates.

What it means is that he supports the people in the military, without stating an opinion on the current war, either for or against. It is possible for two people to have opposite opinions on the war, but still both support the troops. I'm pretty sure that's what he's getting at.

By saying he supports the people in our military, and wants to do this project to honor them, WITHOUT stating any opinion on current or future conflicts, that distances him from the entire debate. Yes, it will still be brought up, but the YRE is about the people, not the politics.

(That's my take anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong about your approach, Ross.)

Just in passing, my comment that I didn't share others enthusiasm for this project should not have been construed to mean that I have any doubts that Ross Rowland can accomplish this. Quite the contrary, I'm quite certain that he can accomplish this.

What I meant is that I don't think it is a particularly good idea.

Torquemada

IMHO one of our most sacred and priceless freedoms in this great nation is all of our right to express our opinions on any subject and know that even if we are alone in that opinion we have that right, without worrying about any adverse consequences of expressing our opinions.
Bob Harbison hit the nail on the head and I think my paragraph from the YRE site says it well also.
This project is all about saying a hearty thank you to those who have answered The Call To Duty and are (or have) serving on the front lines in this GWOT AND thier families, and as a part of that expression of gratitude raising some serious money for the trust fund to be used in the years down the road to help those who come home severly wounded AND thier families.
It's that simple!!!
Only to us steamaholics does it much matter which engine pulls it, what matters is that it click with the American people and accomplish its mission.
Trust me guys there's a tiny minority out there who are professional level CAVE (citizens against virtually everything) people and as you can see our industry hasn't been left out. That's a good thing as it helps make the big picture brighter!
Best regards, Ross Rowland

Is there enough rolling stock around to do this? I'm guessing in the 1970's it was a lot easier to drum up a collection of ex-NYC baggage cars and the rest of the train than today.

Today, you not only need the cars, but they need to have roller bearing, and perhaps have HEP. Does the project purchase the cars, or lease them? How many museums/private owners will be interested in having their cars painted, or perhaps that's a bonus ... that afterwards you get back a newly painted car with 25k more miles on it. I guess one assumes the train is HEP with a power car.

Perhaps this project is a great way for a museum/tourist RR to get an ignored baggage/coach cleaned up, serviced, converted to HEP and repainted for little or no cost for later use back home. If this is the case, isn't this good for preservation?

Personally, I have very fond memories on AFT and CSS - in fact I cut my steam railfan teeth on them and hope all the best for Ross. I missed seeing 614 (was shipboard in the Navy most of that time frame) live and would love to see it hot. For that matter, I'll take ANY mainline steam.

Bob