Bob, you make an excellent point for my side of the debate !!! When using the totally incorrect method #2, my fire does not light with a jolt, hiccup, or the genearally common whooshing sound you describe, and which I now recall. You don't hear much. As you gently open the atomizer, there is a yellow/orange glow in the peephole, and a thin stream of transparant gray smoke, and YOU'RE DONE.

Again I ask how many of you that use method #1 have ever tried or seen method #2. And yes, I'd love to watch you guys demonstrate method #1 for me sometime. Promise I won't say a word....

Well the "whoosh" is familiar to me. I wonder what our other firemen hear. I imagine every locomotive has its own peculiar sound that you get used to.

After being with a locomotive for a while you get to the point where you can sit in the cab on watch and hear the changes in the fire rather than having to peer into the firebox or hang out the window watching the stack.

We light with a propane fired torch on air if we have no carryover the night before. We have blower and atomizer on, then advance our firing control for the light. We've never had a problem with dripping oil and the procedure is repeated when we roll over at 50psi. If I get back up this season I'll try and get a photo documentary.

Again, bits and pieces of this come back to me, and the whoosh is indeed what one hears most of the time when somebody uses method #1.

One time method #2 is different from what I've said so far, is if you do have to relight from scratch with a red hot firebox. (I hardly ever did because I kept it lit as much as possible, but on rare occasions you might need to.) In this case, it might be a good idea to dispense with the puddle of oil and peeking into the peepsight while you monkey with the firing valve, whether or not you are familiar with the engine !!! After opening your blower, throwing in your rag, and shutting the firedoor, etc --- Take the slack out of your firing valve, and try the atomizer. If it doesn't light, close the atomizer and give the fuel another little bump, and try again. Keep repeating in tiny steps as necessary until you see the glow in the firedoor. No need to look out the window or risk getting burned, either.

Come on. I know that I've seen method 2 in steam era textbooks, again maybe MoPac, surely others as well. I didn't just make this stuff up all by myself....

All this talk makes me glad to burn the lil black rocks. All I ever hear when starting a fire is the snap crackle pop of a nice woodfire.

Dave Sutter
Weiser Railroad

In general the method that Sammy has described is what I have found works best on SVRy 19. I had been taught to do it with the atomizer first, but one day our Op.Mgr. Jerry Huck suggested I try oil first. This in my opinion is the smoother method, though I would not allow oil to pool. I watch for oil flow at the atomizer and as soon as oil started running out of the slot which is usually pretty slowly and sluggishly with used motor oil, I turn up the atomizer to blow the oil out to the burning oily waste or newspaper burning in the middle of the firebox. Ignition is quite smooth and generally almost silent and smokeless. It occurs to me that with diesel, which I've never experienced firing with, opening the oil valve just a tad, then the atomizer would need to be in very quick succession due to the fluidity of the diesel, vs. the rather slugish flow of heavier oil. 19's firepan is sloping corresponding to a sloping mudring, so allowing oil to puddle is really not possible to any extent as it just runs out the front damper, which is to be avoided. We often light off with just a large bunch of crumpled up newspaper. The down side of an oily rag is that the smoke from the rag obscures the view of the atomizer that you need to see when oil starts to flow. I've lit off a hot engine with as little as one sheet of crumpled newpaper (due to a lack out on the line of a larger quantity which was of course the fireman's responsibilty to make sure there was adequate supply of).

I have always used method one,since it was the first one I was ever taught when I started. I've seen Method #2 used,but I was far away with fire hose in hand.........

Mr Highballer,

I know you've spent time in Rusk, and SURELY you must know Weldon Wallace, alias JUNIOR. If you stood around with a firehose waiting for Junior to mess up using method #2, everybody who has ever seen him work will agree that you'd be there an awful long time, and you wouldn't have any company, either. The method he taught me has never failed me, and he told me he learned it from Mr. Jay Morrison, a TSE engineer from Diboll who taught all the long time TSRR enginemen. Junior has instructed all who would listen on method #2, and every last one of us is grateful to him for all the trouble he has saved us. In all seriousness, and with no intention of provoking anybody, if somebody can either tell me what Junior does wrong when it comes to firing, or how he could improve the way he does it, I'd love to hear it.

I have asked several times how many of you fellas who believe in method #1 have ever tried method #2, but no answers yet... I will say this, that over the years I've sure seen a lot of gnarly black smoke, backfires, flashbacks, fires where they don't belong, and heard some real wild stories, ALL from operations using method #1. Try method #2, and you'll be convinced. (Or forget it, if that's what you want to do....)

I have indeed spent quite a bit of time in Rusk,and know Weldon and the late Mr.Morrison well. One day many years ago we lit off 400 with charcoal...that was a loooooooooong day indeed! Jaye also had a habit of throwing matches at the firedoor with the engine working hard....with the matches being sucked through the peephole!

I only got to meet Mr Morrison one time, but he was quite the character, and his spirit rides with me every time I fire. The fellas said he got such enjoyment out of walking down the track behind the tender while Moze was learning to drive. He'd grab the trainline, and tap the angle cock open and closed while holding on to the hose (gotta be SAFE now), which made the pressure drop and set up the brakes. After awhile, the victim of this prank learned to watch his air gauges all the time, and feel the first kiss of air squeezing the drivers, even if the brakes had been released.... We sure were lucky to have been paid well to learn from Mr Morrison and everybody he taught. They don't make railroaders like him anymore....

400 on CHARCOAL. Have to admit, I've never tried that method, but that must be because my babysitters remembered the long day you mention. I personally have no particular love for 400, ever since the day I set her on fire big time, which was also the last time I ever used firing method #1. All this talk brings back one more memory for me --- the sound of all those old men in the domino room, cackling like witches gathered around a boiling cauldron whenever somebody screwed up. Can't help but smile, myself.

NOW, knowing how firemen think, and knowing that many who have been following this thread have not been too thrilled with their experiences using method #1, it occurs to me that some of you are going to get curious and will probably be tempted to try method #2. Unless you have somebody experienced in method #2 on site to help you the first time, please watch your step. In the interest of safety, I will make myself available to help ANYBODY with method #2 if I possibly can. It could be something like arranging to stick by the phone for a few hours during the time of your first attempt, or talking over what you want to do beforehand, etc... so if anybody actually WANTS my advice, please feel free to contact me: catdaddy@netecin.net or give me a holler (303) 822-8802 And, whichever method you use, this has been a most interesting discussion. Y'all work safe, and happy railroading !!!

Have you ever tried Natural gas? I recall SP having a way to lite off a cold locomotive with natural gas instead of oil.

Robby

I am told the Tonopah & Tidewater, which ran from Ludlow, Calif. on the Santa Fe through Baker and Death Valley Jct to Beatty, Nevada, used natural gas to keep locomotives hot between runs. They would turn off the oil burner and use natural gas until it was time to move the engine for the next run.

For my 2 1/2 cents worth, I know nothing about this method, and the whole idea scares me to death, kind of like firing with acetylene and oxygen. Others will tell you more, and different versions, no doubt. But I'd sure be scared to try it without somebody who has done it successfully before as my babysitter. You could well end up wishing for a good old fashioned fire in the pit, that you can put out with a hose....

Robby,
The 3751 was fired on natural gas about three times after the boiler was tight during the 1990 restoration. This was at the steel mill and the natural gas pressure there was 60 lbs. No that was not a mistake for those who will ask if I meant 6 inches of water. This was a steel mill and the furnaces had giant burners with roaring blowers on them. 60 lbs was the plant system. Anyway we used two furnace burners in the firebox and brought her up slow on natural gas.

The downside to natural gas is that the system should have all the safety apparatus included. Especially with 60PSI if there was a flame out the entire firebox, tubes and front end could fill with raw gas. I can imagine if that were to catch with a spark or flame.

I don't know if any shops used natural gas back in the days but it is easy to use and very clean. Today you would need the photo eye, solenoids and pilots otherwise you shouldn't be trying this.

SP 3420 has a nipple connection down stream from the fuel oil regulation valve that supposedly was used for natural gas starts. The last firing book on the SP from 1947/8 talks about using natural gas to do a cold start on locomotives. It appears to me that it was an easier way to get a locomotive hot enough to heat the oil in the tender to get it to flow. Bunker C at room temperature is not exactly free flowing. I would be interested in hearing more about the experiences with 3751 and natural gas fire ups as I see this as a possible pollution mitigation possibility with oil burners when starting them up in communities with air pollution issues.

In the SP manual if you did not have natural gas it even talked about using wood. If you used wood you got to get the residuals of the wood fire back out of the firebox before using oil which meant crawling in to get it.

About the nicest thing we used was a stack fan that created about the best draft we ever had with 3420. The draw was the most even across the firebox that I ever experienced. However, an air hose off of the side is a whole lot easier to handle than the fan off of the top of the stack.

Robby