If I remember correctly, sir, you visited Stewartstown a couple years ago, the engine went on the ground, and they haven't run again. Could you maybe go to the movies instead?

........... I was up there precisely because it was exactly the same circumstances: the railroad had no plans to run after that particular day of excursions. And it was two of the cars that derailed, not the loco.

And I did get a letter from the railroad's operation staff thanking me for the detailed, close-up photos I took and gave to them after the derailment (running to the Wal-Mart as darkness fell and having them made from my digital card), which they said aided their internal "investigation".

Hey, I wish I could help out that railroad, too. Same darned situation, though. <:-(

If the railroad is in fact up for sale, wouldn't the highest bidder possibly be the state of PA which might be a good thing (making it possibly a permanent fixture)?

Now that I have picked myself off the floor.

There is no way that could be true, unless there are no other offers or unless all other offers are so ridiculously low as to lack legal sufficiency.

We are in desperate need of more municipal financing of sports stadiums and speculative grants to nascent companies with unproven technology, so that the politicians can be said to be alert for "investments" and "public partnerships" and supportive of "high tech", "domestic energy" and other cute, but vacant buzz phrases.

The rule of the day is bread and circuses. There are no votes or campaign contributions to be garnered from the delivery of an oversized novelty check to a rural county. Indeed, I would suggest that the issues with the K-4 would make anything involving steam engines the equivalent of kryptonite.

Now, if we can figure out what needs to be done to obtain a copy of the Public Protection and Recreation Comptrollers Office audit report that no doubt preceeded the most recent "re-evaluation" of the project.

You assume (facetiously, I presume) that there even ARE any other offers, or that the Commonwealth would indeed make an offer.

Search the archives of this forum if you insist on rehashing all the history supposedly behind offers for the EBT. To be honest, I've heard every variant on several tales about attempts to "purchase" the EBT--Federal, state, private guy with suitcase full of cash being shown the door, you name it.

Those on this forum with experience will know that there are some owners of equipment for which the only rational recourse is to walk away and await death to intervene. You could wave $1 billion for a steam locomotive, and all of a sudden the price would be $1.5 billion. I call it the inevitable price of private property ownership. This is hardly the only case of such shenanigans; I can cite a case of an interstate highway with a fatal curve that wasn't eased until one powerful politician died and they could take part of his farm.

At the risk of being flamed...

I rode the EBT in 2003. While it may be true that it is a historic and intact railroad, man oh man, for the 'regular' tourists that take their families to places like this, I've got to tell you, it is highly underwhelming. I took my wife and her parents there, and we probably won't go back. Why? Its not worth the effort to get them to go. When the train was in motion, it was an enjoyable trip, no doubt. However the rest of the experience was much like having teeth yanked for those not hard core railfans. With no novacane.

What I don't understand about this site is that while there are a lot of people interested in keeping it going, there seems to be a lackadasical approach to the business by the owners. Living in Central PA, I have never seen any formal advertisement for the EBT. Its not that far from here, and there are already a lot of people coming to the state to see and ride on trains. The tourists come, but the problem seems to be Orbisonia is not interested in capturing any of their dollars. With no advertising, is it really a suprise that they are always on the brink? Who knows, perhaps the best thing would be for the whole thing to be sold.

Just my 2c.

Mark,

You've hit the nail right on the head. On the surface, it appears the owner quite simply does not see this as a business he wants to make any investement in. In my opinion, and my opinion only, it's a liability and not an asset in his eyes. Keep in mind he and his family have made their money in the scrapping and demolition business. The buy things currently of little or no value to anyone and wait patiently until someone wants what they have and they make a tidy proft. Nothing wrong with that at all. After all, this is America. A few marketing dollars would no doubt attract more business. Then perhaps the railroad would start to support itself moreso than it does currently. I don't understand how they can invest over half a million dollars in the last rehab of one the Mikes and not spend hardly anything on advertising and marketing. I know it's a very rural area, but I would think the community in the end would benefit from visitors spending more $$$ in their stores, shops and restaurants. There is a nearby state park that draws in large numbers of visitors each year so it's not like the whole county is turned off on tourism. This one will probably keep me scratching my head for some time to come.

Rob Gardner

There USED to be lots of flyers for the EBT at the Sidling Hill rest area on the turnpike .... at least in mid-January.

How do I know? I took a handful and gave them out at the Cabin Fever Model Engineering Expo in York, Pa a couple years running. Just because I wanted to help a little bit.

There have been none at all for at least 2 years.

IIRC Pennsylvania Magazine did a feature on the EBT a couple years ago...and they still show up in the events calendar in there. BUT my ex-MiL is the only person I know who actually subscribes to that particular rag.

From things I've heard, I don't think the lack of commitment comes from Nick K or his wife (or didn't), but rather the extended family.

As for the REST of the area...how from there is it till you actually find a restaurant or motel chain? Another tourist trap?

It's also probably like everywhere else, the locals secretly (or not so) wish that the touristas would just send their money, but stay home.

sorry to ramble

Truth be told, the brochures/rack cards keep changing appearance so many times/ways that I've given up trying to keep track. Don't assume you're looking for [whatever last year's cards looked like] just because that's what they used last year. Heck, even Strasburg changed from their static format years ago.

Having said that, I must concede that I haven't seen a "current" EBT card/brochure in several years--and I work with places that EXPECT to get them, even if hand-delivered by a roving FEBT volunteer.

Howdy all,

In regard to National Register status, the US is very different from other countries such as Britain. National Register status provides the possibilities for certain types of tax exeption, grants, and additional exposure. It does NOT prevent the destruction of a historic resource in any way. To be sure, if federal funding is involved in the destruction of a National Register listed property, the agency involved will have to follow the guidlines of the Section 106 process and attempt to mitigate the impact on the resource. However, particularly under this administration in Washington, it is quite easy to make a case for alteration or destruction of historic properties after having finished the Section 106 process. As an archaeologist, we deal with these issues on a day to day basis and often find situations frustrating. In terms of the EBT, National Register status would seem to be of little actual benefit for the purposes of preservation.

Regards,

Stathi Pappas

"It's Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, and Alabama in the middle". James Carville on Pennsylvania

Historical designation WILL NOT prevent a determined owner from altering or demolishing said "protected" site. Usually such an owner has sufficiently deep pockets that financial penalties such as fines would not deter them from carrying out their actions. Chattanooga, Tennessee learned that the hard way when the State of Georgia and L&N Railroad sold their respective shares of the Union Depot to the Stone Fort Land Company back in the 1970s. The 1880s vintage depot was on the National Register of Historic Places-Stone Fort leveled it in less than a year. No one at any level of government made any investigation into the developer's actions even though the citizens had made it clear that they did not want the building demolished.

That said, I hope that someone in the Pennsylvania state government would take an interest in protecting the EBT. However, with more pressing issues I don't know that they would stop a determined scrapper from lifting the rails. In this industry, I have found that it pays to hope for the best outcome but plan for the worst.

My observation is that there may be a problem that is something that the railroad may not have the ability to change by itself. That is the lack of development within a reasonable distance and thus a lack of customer base. Look at the following three rail operations and consider this. Durango and Silverton, Cumbres and Toltec and EBT are all located in small towns that are pretty far off the beaten track for most travelers. You don't just stumble across them, you have to actively go to them. While each may be the lifeblood of the community, two exist in communities where there is little community interaction with the railroad.

The reason that the Durango and Silverton is profitable while C&TS and EBT hang on is that Durango has transitioned from a mining town to a tourist town. Yes the train still runs but the town has diversified itself to provide the things that tourists want. Yes there's some grumbling about locomotive smoke by certain people but the railroad is making honest attempts to be a good neighbor. The folks there realize that the success of the railroad goes hand in hand with the success of their community. Of course, having their scenery doesn't hurt either.

Finally, the best advertising is word of mouth. The only way to get that is to develope a faithful customer base by providing quality service. Working as a passenger conductor on the Tennessee Valley, probably 25 percent of our customers were return customers who visited us at least twice a year. Good service and a community that is willing to put out the Welcome mat for tourists are both required for success.

What amazed me about the EBT is that it's not very far at all off the Pennsylvania Turnpike's Ft. Littleton Exit, yet there's nary a sign in sight letting people know it's there.

We say its off the beaten path, but I think with some proper signage EBT could definitely catch a lot of vacationers during the summer on their way out to the shore!

Regardless, I'd agree that something needs to be done to save this treasure. I'm concerned that apathy, from the government, ownership, or otherwise, might be the death of this thing someday.

Folks,

I have followed the EBT for several years now and once again the stumbling block is that they K family (there are several of them) do not want to sell the property.

In this country for better or worse you have to be a non profit or government agency to get government dollars to flow into your project. It is a fact that no dollars will go into a private corporation.

I wish also that theree was more to the Historic Preservation act of 1966. If a private owner wants to knock down a building or scrap a rail line he is free to do so after documenting the place.

Ted Miles

Assuming that this is true, then here's the dilemma:

The railroad's operation eats money. Even assuming that you get locomotive maintenance donated by a nearby profitable excursion line, that you can burn mine-run coal from company-owned coal seams, that the line can be held together with spacer bars acquired in a company acquisition........... and all of the above are brash, asinine assumptions..........

You get what you pay for. Even given rural Pennsylvanian wages, this line would need realistic money to bring in realistic income.

It ain't happening.

The ugly rumor is that the K family has been slowly selling off EBT Coal and Railroad Company holdings (supposedly timber and mineral holdings and raw property) over the past several years to keep the railroad operation going. Same rumors say that the company is literally running out of things to sell. IF (and I repeat IF) any of this is even close to true, we are indeed seeing the "end times" for the EBT as we know it.

To give you but one example of the dilemmas that everyone POSSIBLY faces (all of the following is pure speculation based on some knowledge of the area and nothing more): All of that EBT property/right-of-way is theoretically commercial real estate and taxable as such. Therefore, the K family COULD be the biggest real estate tax payer in the county. Supposing the RR goes to the state/Feds. Bang goes a big chunk of real estate tax revenue for an otherwise dirt-poor Huntington County. Or does it? But if the state runs a better RR operation, would tourism and related revenue go up?