In regard to the photo shown as the topic of the thread in the above link, I'm a little confused.

I understand that the EBT aluminum adaptors just slide into either the large or small coupler (not sure which one), and then the two different size couplers can mate.

The photo in the above link appears to be an iron piece that replaces the knuckle in a coupler. It is configured as a solid casting that replicates a closed coupler, including the knuckle and the opposing "thumb" feature.

Also, it must be shown on a 3/4 size coupler since it is on an EBT car. So it appears to replicate the 3/4 size, not a full size as one would expect if it were an adaptor to full size. In fact, the features of the piece appear to be even smaller than the corresponding features of the 3/4 size coupler that it is mounted on.

So I would like to know what the item shown in the NG Discussion thread is. Somebody referred to it as a "safety knuckle" or emergency knuckle, and said they were standard items carried on cabooses. If a knuckle broke, were these emergency knuckles installed as a replacement? If so, what was the point?

It looks like a plain ol' emergency knuckle. They are illustrated in WWI and before issues of the Car Builders Cyclopedia. The point was, I believe, that before the ARA standardized on the Type D coupler, one couldn't just carry a spare knuckle; there was no guarantee that the lock would fit from one brand to the next. While the knuckle profile was interchangeable, the lock from a Climax wouldn't fit a Tower, the lock from a Tower wouldn't fit a Sharon, and so on. These emergency knuckles therefore had the whole coupler profile, a pin hole to attach it by, and a featureless tang that was just crammed into the broken coupler head to keep the whole thing from turning. The adoption of the Type D, and later Type E coupler, with fully interchangeable parts between brands, made these obsolete. But apparently not on the Colorado narrow gauge, where many of the non-standard pre ARA MCB couplers hung on until the end.

It appears that CATS is using the one in the photo to increase the size of the 3/4 size EBT knuckle to full size, to mate with the full size couplers used in Colorado. In the photo, compare the width of the flat portion of the coupler profile over the lock and you'll see that the adaptor is larger. Obviously it works, but it's not the way the EBT did things.

Thanks Dennis. Your explanation makes perfect sense. I do see that the flat portion of the adaptor is wider than the corresponding portion of the EBT coupler. I suppose the features that appear to smaller than the EBT coupler features could afford to be downsized because the emergency knuckle was considered temporary, kind of like those little donut spare tires. The design probably had to struggle to keep the weight down in order for trainmen to carry it since it was basically more than just a knuckle.

It would be a wonderful operating exhibit.
Doug

Dennis,
Yes they still exist and yes you will still need a chain saw, perhaps
a few chain saws....

My best,

Eric

Some photo captions have mentioned that Reading and Pennsylvania hopper cars were sometimes sent empty to the mines when someone in the standard gauge world wanted to buy a carload of run of the mine coal. Private tank cars would come loaded inbound with heated liquid ingredients for asphalt roads. Sometimes the dome lid had to be removed to fit through the tunnels.

Well, the aluminum adapters are no longer in the paint shop, but they are still in the shops.

There are three known 'transfer trucks' still around that are modified for use with standard gauge cars. They're in Mt. Union, and one is missing a wheel set. There once were many more pairs of these. Where they got to is anyone's guess.

Here's a closer photo:

http://www.railfanusa.com/pics/ebay/060910_19.jpg

Thats awsome! Thank you so much!

It has been proposed in the recent past for the FEBT to acquire a standard gauge boxcar for this purpose, but it was declined by the BOD. This is reasonable considering all the other issues the FEBT is contending with right now. The USATC boxcars are still in Mount Union, but they are in bad shape. They would have to be trucked to Rockhill Furnace anyway, then restored, then modified. Maybe someday.

Two examples of the modified trucks with side and center bearing adapters still exist in the Mount Union yard. There may be a third, but it is upside down so it is impossible to tell if it is a TT truck. There are some others around the railroad that appear to have been TT trucks in the past but were converted back to standard configuration. The rest have apparently been sold off to other lines.

I have lifted them on several occasions and they are indeed _very_ heavy. The remaining examples are not in the Paint Shop, but in another secure location which we have been asked not to reveal nor publish photos. Jim Vliet's page has good photos of them, though.

I believe the brake rigging was reconnected to the cars.

I don't believe that they removed the domes from the tank cars but rather the dome caps.

According to reports, in times of shortages of EBT hoppers, standard gauge coal hoppers were retrucked and sent to the Midvalley mine at Joller, which was the largest independent mine on the railroad.

Perhaps the FEBT board turned the proposal down and with good reason, but it might be nice if they surveyed FEBT membership to see what the consensus of such a proposal would be.

Les