A few RR related thefts in NY to relate:

The Upper Hudson River RR had just installed new crossing protection about 2 years ago for their revival of some of the D&H Adirondack Branch. Someone went along the newly bonded rails and snipped and took every bond wire off of some of the new installations.

The Battenkill RR had a bunch of tie-plates and other new iron ripped off from them from a job site where it was stored and staged for track revitalization.

The suspects in both incidents were eventually discovered and tracked down (no pun intended).

Sadly, this seems to be a more and more common problem with no end in sight.

I have a friend in western new york that told me about 5 locomotives that had been stripped of all traction cables. They also got inside the cab.
The locomotives were from two different railroads. Buffalo Southern RR and New York and Lake Erie.

Enforcement and check-writing by an industry that is substantially run by organized crime and used for money laundering is unlikely to mail out check and keep copious records of all of their transactions.

the NY & LE has had some bad thefts. copper was cut out of a functional S2, ruining it. This is a major proiblem.

My buddy works installing security cameras. These are not the cheap Harbor Freight ones, but their cost is not that bad (around $200 ea). They are hooked directly to the internet, record as much data as you have storage space, are infra red for nite vision, super high res, and remote positionable. This is the direction that everyone needs to go. These cameras are so good, we were able to "grab a random car" going by at about 40+MPH on the street, zoom in on the license plate and read it very clearly, then actually got a good pic of the people in the car. Detail was so good, if they were drinking a beer or smokin' something, you could clearly see them.

The cameras are sony's (or some knock off)

Its that or buy an old van, paint "Joe Redneck Electric" on it, park it with a flat tire on the rail property, and take turns camping in the van with 3-5 of the biggest guys in the org. (maybe even a couple free memberships to some very big guys) When caught, place theives in said van, dig large hole, bury, forget, and repeat as needed

or (here in Texas) just paint the van black and leave it in the sun a week

(by the way, I am a big guy, and would offer my help, if needed...lol)

dr dodge

I cruised by one of the local "recycling" businesses on Christmas Eve morning...business was booming. Trucks were literally backed up in the street waiting to get in and unload. What got me curious was seeing a truck drive by the museum headed toward the junk yard with a load of what looked like aluminum railing. Trucks had license plates from several surrounding counties and a chop saw was being used to separate copper coils from a steel plate they were attached to.

I figure this is where all the copper tubing from our steam locomotive went a couple of years ago when it was stolen from inside the building in which it was stored after cleaning and painting. As bad as it was to lose not just the copper tubing but all the bronze fittings brazed onto the ends of the tubing, I cannot imagine the level of frustration caused by having an operable (or nearly so) diesel locomotive stripped of a few hundred dollars of scrap-value copper costing many thousands of dollars to replace when there is no budget to buy the cable and pay the labor to have the work done.

The executive director finally agreed to put up fencing (paid for out of my restoration budget, of course), but not until it was too late. On top of that, the local historic preservation commission would allow only 6 ft chain link, not the 8 ft with barbed wire we wanted. They said it was not in keeping with the local aesthetics since we are in the "downtown historic district". I wonder if they will cover the costs of any vandalism or thefts next time...

Today's Detroit News has an article from rural Michigan about thefts of copper wire from irrigation pumps. Apparently any untended electrical installation is at risk. If I had a trolley museum in the boonies - or anywhere else, for that matter - I'd be fearful. And I'd watch where I parked my Diesel locomotives and HEP'ed passenger cars, too.

Rural areas may soon be as bad off as some cities. EVERY streetlight and traffic signal in the City of Detroit now has a five-foot tall plastic boot around the base, lest the wires be stolen.

This isn't necessarily new, though. I remember in 1976 when one of the first trains of the old Michigan Northern went on the ground because someone had stolen a length of rail out of the main line.

Funny someone should mention a law:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/72451.php

Law removes copper's luster for criminals
Mandates to log big sales puts big dent in large thefts
CARLI BROSSEAU
Tucson Citizen
Local law enforcement and businesses affected by metal theft agree that related crimes are down because of revisions of the scrap metal sales laws that took effect Sept. 1.
The revised laws require scrap metal yards to carefully document sales. They also stiffened penalties for those convicted of metal theft.
Copper thefts skyrocketed in 2005 when copper prices rose dramatically, spurred by construction projects abroad. Prices on copper futures peaked at almost $4 per pound last year. That's up from less than $1 in 2003, according to New York Mercantile Exchange figures.
The new laws, Tucson police detectives say, help explain why thefts are down even though prices still hover around $3. Another reason for fewer thefts: increased security by companies that have large stocks of metal.
"We have had several cases where we had to inform large companies of what they lost, in one case a big spool of copper," said Sgt. Richard Carpenter, a Tucson police detective. "The security just wasn't there."
Construction companies are now more likely to prosecute. "We want people to know we're serious," said Brian Sweeney, safety director for Borderlands Construction.
Borderlands has seen fewer thefts since Sept. 1, and Sweeney attributed the trend to the laws. "It hasn't stopped the theft, but it has sure helped," he said.
Trico Electric Cooperative - which provides power to northwest Tucson, Marana, Sahuarita, Corona de Tucson and Arivaca - lost $26,000 through copper theft in the first eight months of the year, said Romi Carrell Wittman, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit co-op. There have been no thefts since Sept. 1, she said.
Spokesmen for Tucson Electric Power Co. and Qwest, the regional telecommunications company, would not provide figures, but they said there had been a noticeable drop in thefts. They both said security had also improved.
Fewer streetlights are out, because thieves haven't stripped the copper wires from them, representatives of the state Department of Transportation and the city said.
The Tucson Transportation Department has recorded only five thefts since Sept. 1, compared to 78 in the eight months before that, spokesman Michael Graham said.
In the 2 1/2 years since copper prices started rising dramatically, the city has spent $250,000 replacing about 40 miles of wire, he said.
The number of thefts in unincorporated Pima County fell from six in August to one in November, Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Deputy Dawn Hanke said. There were 42 in August 2006 and 30 in November 2006 in the unincorporated county.
Tucson police haven't compiled similar records since May because of a staffing shortage but Carpenter - who heads the copper theft section (four people when fully staffed) - said the trend is the same: fewer total thefts and fewer large heists.
Database not in use yet
Carpenter said the system isn't working as well as it could.
His complaint: The database provided for by the law to make information about scrap metal sales available to law enforcement isn't available yet, and there isn't clear consensus on what information will be included.
The law requires scrap metal dealers to record detailed information about every purchase of a metal other than iron worth more than $25.
The dealers must note the date, time and place of the purchase; the dollar amount; the seller's name, birth date, address, signature, physical description; and the number and state of the license plate on the seller's vehicle.
They have to photocopy the seller's driver's license, take a photograph or video record of the seller and the material sold and also take a fingerprint. Payment must also be mailed to the seller instead of handed over at the scrap yard.
The Legislature gave the state Department of Public Safety $150,000 and made it responsible for managing the data, DPS officials said.
Department spokesman Sgt. Tim Mason said the agency had received notice of more than 4,000 sales through Dec. 5.
DPS is hiring an analyst to go through the information and standardize the database that Phoenix police use, said Jeff Pierce, deputy director of Rocky Mountain Information Network, which has been assigned the technical work.
He projected that local law enforcement would be able to access the databases of sales transactions by year's end.
The database will allow law enforcement agencies to get information on sales, but there is no way - other than old-fashioned police work - to connect that information with thefts, Pierce said.
Several cases so far have demonstrated the usefulness of the law and the database, even in its current state, TPD's Carpenter said.
Police have received calls from scrap metal dealers who thought they may have bought metal that had been earlier reported stolen, Carpenter said. They had e-mailed photos of the stolen material to the dealers.
Police can call DPS to check on purchases, which have to be reported within 24 hours.
Carpenter said clerks now call police if they think something had been stolen "to make sure they had covered their bases."
Dealers may face prosecution of a class 1 misdemeanor for not complying with the laws.
The immediacy of the system doesn't just affect police and those committing the crimes. It also affects the scrap metal dealers because it can cut into profits.
Individuals turned away
One scrap metal dealer stopped accepting metal from individuals because of the law.
"We eliminated that part of the business because of the financial outlay to comply with the arrangements," said Chris LeDonne, co-manager of Desert Metals, referring to equipment needed to record and send the information to DPS. "We only handle sales from companies now."
Dealers lose the money they pay a seller if the metal is later found to be stolen, Carpenter said.
But LeDonne is happy with the effects of the law, even though it has changed how he does business: "Before, we had to be judge and jury. Now we know where the material comes from."

Someone was telling me that there is some kind of law on the books in some states that state something along the lines that a scrap dealer can not accept any rail related scrap (rails, spikes, plates) without proper paperwork. Since this is news to me, can someone fill in the details?

The flip side is that I do not appreciate the fact that now more personal freedoms have been removed.
we keep getting nickel and dimed, and pretty soon we'll be all out
I haul scrap to try to keep the place cleaned up around here. don't make much $$$, but believe its the "green thing" to do
most of the time I make a little over the cost of a tank of fuel (now almost $60) and a 12 pack (not the good stuff)
for only 4-6 hours of work
now you can bet I'll get a 1099 or some other doc so I can get taxed
Then add the fact of providing the personal information above, listed on who knows how secure database (read lowest bidder, fraud ridden scrap industry) there is just one more place for me to get hit on ID theft to boot
Just think if you'd be willing to paint all that info on a billboard for a month.

dr dodge

One problem that the law does not prevent is damage related to copper related break ins. While it may eventually catch the thief, you still have a large number of break ins where thieves are looking for copper to steal. Old Pueblo Trolley has had several break ins at our storage yards in the past year. No copper or other items of value are kept at the yard in question but there has been related vandalism-breaking of windows in stored cars and graffiti.

The best solution is to develop a reasonable amount of security. Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum had installed several CCTV cameras at the Grand Junction depot by the time I left. Only a limited number of individuals have knowledge of the location of the equipment room and access to it. The depot had full coverage of all exterior doors, the main driveway, the full train platform, waiting room, gift shop and main hall. Additional cameras may have been installed since I left. All of our cameras were high resolution and very low profile. Some were plainly recognizable as cameras, but we always used at least one covert camera too.

There was an article in this morning's Panama City, FL, newspaper about the theft of $1 million worth of bronze statuary from a sculptor's studio in Vermont. A scrap dealer paid $4,000. from some of it and then called the police. More was found at a dealer in Massachusetts, who paid $8,000. The thieves were all in their early 20's.

If scrap dealers will buy artwork for cents on the c-note, it would appear railroad items would completely escape their grasp as to origin.

As far as security measures go, I tried something simple. We took one of our "lightplants" the portable type you see on construction jobs at night, and set it up overlooking the washplant/crusher whose wire had been the source of income for the local tweekers. I know what you're gonna say, "Now they can see what they're stealing"....Yeah, yeah I heard them all...but oddly enough, the sound of a diesel engine and 100 billion candle power has acted as a detterent.
It was a bit of a risk, they could have stole all the wire they could now see with the surface-of-the-sun-type illumination, then shut off and stolen the light plant, but apparently the don't, much like zombies, go into the light...
As far as an inability to haul your own scrap ala dr.dodge, there are some local guys that are actually in the metal salvage buisness that will come out and pick up the stuff free of charge, thus saving my back and the cost of the fuel to haul it, which I then spend on Beer...seriously though, this is a place that is remote, not seen from any passing streets, where they had stolen wire at least six times, and once stolen our old gravel pit pickup truck to haul it off in, and since the coming of the light we have had no problems.

Opening myself up to a barrage of criticism....Dave

They're like rats. Rats avoid going out in the light because that makes them easy prey. It's been proven that lighting a place up will reduce criminal activity.

If you have an operation with a conveniently close scrapyard, did it ever occur to you to introduce yourselves to said scrapyard? Maybe form a better relationship than calling them all "unscrupulous, money laundering, unethical businesses"? Sure there are some yards that aren't the most honest - but there's also plenty of honest yards out there. Sure, they can ask for ID (it will probably be fake), or a letter from the railroad for RR materials (I can fake one of those up in 3 minutes) but there's only so much they can do and remain in business. So toss them a few pieces of scrap every once in awhile and ask them to give you a call if someone drives up with an alco S2 in the back of their pickup truck...


Besides, it is not like there's a single museum out there with material obtained through "questionable" means, eh?

We actually used to do buisness with the scrapyard that turned out to be the worst of the bunch. Our work generates a lot of scrap in the form of wear parts and re-newing processing equiptment, and I was on a first name basis with the the owner/manager of this the most prominent scrapyard in the area. We had sent down scrap for years, and even sent a large loader to move a piece of machinary for him, free of charge, but when I went to him asking if he had bought any copper recently after the worst theft ever, his reply was "Oh, I never buy copper". After the police showed up with the same question, a bin materialized loaded with the wire from our washplant that he said he bought the day before.
Am I generalizing? Yes, as the other three scrap dealers in the area had some of our (yes we mark it, as long as some of the insulation is still on it we can ID it) wire. IMHO the buyers are as guilty as the sellers.

Fed up...Dave