I wonder if the best way to do this is to forget about the pit completely. Have a turntable with track from the roundhouse or enginehouse and a track or two off of it to fueling facilities and/or to train operations. You can control "those tracks" however you want. The rest of the turntable still runs using a circle of rail, but instead of pit walls, a gradual slope down to them. I believe that CSX (ex-B&O) has a turntable like this that they use at Barr Yard in Riverdale, Illinois, just outside Chicago. And I believe that there are tourist lines that have this type of setup. Do I recall seeing one at the Texas State Railroad? And maybe at other places? Using this idea, no one is going to fall into a pit that isn't there. And photographers can still get good photos of locomotives on the turntable.

Les

Accepted.

This evening I had diner with Kyle Wyatt of CSRM and he had an interesting story about the turntable installation. The Museum has a 80' turntable and for the pit an SP drawing for a 80' turntable pit was used as a source.

The pit drawing called out for a 80'-3" diameter. The contractor did not believe this and measured the length of the turntable -- it was 80' long. Ah, the contractor thought, they don't know what they are doing -- I'm going to make the pit 80' in diameter. What the contractor did not take into account was the width of the table; the crititcal dimension is actually the length between the corners of the table.

So when the table was installed it did not fit. To make it fit the corners were cut down on the table.

The East Broad Top's turntable at Rockhill Furnace has a very low wire fence with substantial wooden posts set back from the pit about 10 feet. It's worked very well since 1960, and it's been there so long now it's part of the scene. I've never heard of anyone falling into their turntable pit -- nor into the adjacent ash pit or the inspection pit back by the shop. Maybe it's the "industrial" setting, as mentioned in a previous mesaage.

Another option is a turntable "above ground," which can be accomplished by building into the side of a hill or by building the lead track upgrade to meet the table. Of course, these don't work so well if you want to access a roundhouse!

Here is what they have at the Georgia State Railroad Museum in Savannah. I know not what the legalities of such things are but I must say that this is the most visually appealing barrier I have ever seen around a table. Easy and cheap to build...very strong...very easy to "open" and "close".
http://www.chsgeorgia.org/roundhouse/Mo ... 202007.pdf

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Here's an example of a turntable "sans pit" so to speak:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=226831&nseq=5

I seem to recall a new turntable being installed somewhere out east, on one of the commuter railroads that also didn't have a pit - just one track leading up to the turntable.

We dont have a fence at SRI. We have tried a little chain fence, but I am not sure if it is still in use. With the kids, the story of the long lost kid who lives in the pit and needs to be fed everyday, usually does the trick. I will let someone else elaborate, but I dont think we have ever had someone fall in the pit.

I have come close to putting my truck in there, but that is all I know about.

A lot of good ideas have been expressed in reply to the initial question, but some more info on the turntable would have helped focus these on the specific situation. IIRC the table in question is sought by the Smiths Falls Ry Museum and is an existing Canadian Pacific 100 foot long table. It sits next to an existing roundhouse, also wanted by the group for some years. If someone could post images of these it would certainly help us make suggestions based on the layout of the site. In any case this is not a situation where a turntable is being moved or a new pit is being built. If this is wrong will someone please provide a correction.

Hi, Ron:

One of the turntables being looked at is indeed the CP Smiths Falls table, which is 107 feet in length (originally 70' but lengthened by CP). It is retired in place, but we do not own it. Other tables, with various depth pits are also being considered.

The liability issue will be a huge factor in the final decision of putting in a turntable or doing without.

In my opinion, the issue should be fairly easy to deal with, and many good ideas for fencing have been brought out.

CP's Smiths Falls roundhouse was demolished many years ago, but we are considering the possibility of building a replica of the original stone three stall roundhouse on our site. CP's later additions won't be included, as the three stalls will fill the available space and provide a very nice showcase for special locomotives.

We're currently in the process of developing our site plan (OK, it should have happened twenty five years ago), which is one issue that has brought the topic to the foreground.

Another reason for our looking at the turntable issue is that a gentleman has pledged a very large donation that will go a long way toward building the roundhouse and moving a turntable. Much more will need to be raised, of course, but he is making the project feasible.

I'll try to post some pics, but it'll be a while before I can.

Thanks, all, and I'm looking forward to seeing more great ideas!

Steve Hunter

http://www.sfrmeo.ca/

http://elliottd.fotki.com/sfrmeo/

Thanks for bringing me up to date on the situation in Smith's Falls and correcting me on the length of the turntable and fate of the roundhouse. Best of luck as your plans move forward.

The CSRM turntable is in an area outside of the museum building and accessible to the public 24/7. Most people who walk (or bicycle, as I often do) by the pit don't have any contact with museum staff or docents. It would seem that a turntable pit in such a setting would need more in the way of protection than a pit in an area that is closed to the public when the museum is not open.

TVRM has been involved with the installation of two turntables-the Soule Shops turntable in Chattanooga and the Park turntable down in Summerville, Georgia. The Soule Shops table is not fenced from the public walkway but is within the perimeter fence at Soule Shops. Public access is only provided during regular business hours.

The Park turntable is entirely fenced in, with a track gate where the turntable lead is. That fence is built into the pit retaining walls and is 8-10 feet tall. The gates are kept closed except when the table is being used to turn locomotives.

As far as I am aware, the only time we've had people in the pit were the times that maintenance was being performed.

I think what this comes down to is how do you want to manage your risk at your railroad? If you look at most places everything is open to someone doing something that could hurt themselves.

Seems if Signs or a low fence is put up would be the perfect case. We all see signs for construction ahead or slow down 35 MPH but how many folks take to the time to think about the risk they are taking if they don't obey the signs?

Maybe if you look at the engineering aspect of it you can make the fencing out of light weight metals and have it pin or bolted in a way that it could be removed for the old time feel when you want to do a photo charter but yet heavy enough to keep the little kid who wants to climb on it from falling in or the average large american who will lean on it.

Risk is part of everyones daily lives and if you dwell on it to much you'll never get anything else done as you'll be too busy worrying about the next law suit

SMH