After riding the footplate on a steam locomotice this afternoon, I really can't help but wonder if this is simply as case of, "well, the old guys did it and I'm not going to look whimpy compared to them," or if it's really an issue on if hearing something over something that loud is really a viable reason...
I'm not saying none of you haven't brought up viable points, but I do wonder...

.

Men were running steam locomotives in this country for more than 125 years before I was born. Why would I assume they learned nothing about their craft? Of course you learn from those who go before you. As a working railroader I also understand doing new things and probably use hearing protection more than most of my coworkers. After 30 years of doing this I can also look back and see some things we did better and faster than what we are doing now. That is just part of a railroad career I guess.

The simple answer is there is a huge difference between riding the footplate and riding the beast instead of having it ride you. To do the job properly you must use all of your senses to the greatest extent possible. They are many sounds you have to identify. First you have to identify the normal sounds, what they are and what they mean. Then it is "What is that new rattle, pound, squeal, or blow/". Then you have to determine if it is something you can live with to the next stop, the shop, or do I need to fix this thinng now. There are lots of other sounds like was that poping sound a loose joint or did we just go over a broken rail? Yes, you really must be able to hear those little sounds while bouncing along in that hot and very noisy cab.

The customers have paid for a product and you are responsible for delivering that product on time and safely. In one sense that has not changed as the old time engineers on steam were expected to know how to identify and repair whatever broke on their locomotives. The only real difference in todays world is that the guy ruinning the locomotive is also usually the shop guy too and there is no shop force available close by.

What has generally changed is that you are often responsible for the only steam locomotive the group has operating. In the case of mainline steam not identifing a problem may cause not only a big delay to the host railroad and passengers but also a big black eye to your organization. That may cost you the only place you have to run your locomotive and that may cost the organization their very existance and endanger the locomotive's very existance. Should the problem you did not detect be serious enough you may in fact endanger the existance of operating steam anywhere in this country.

Yes I will repeat myself and say you had better hear, see, and feel those little things in all that noise, dirt, and heat. Then you had better identify what it is you are sensing and in some cases make a repair and be damn quick about it. That is a lot different than just riding the footplate and until you start running locomotives you just do not understand all that is involved.

We seriously considered installing/using a head-set communications system in 614 and decided that it was more important to be exposed to all the sounds of the engine vs. the improved interpersonal conversational improvements.

As an above poster mentions if you really know a given machine your ear can often detect something amiss early enough to address a situation before it becomes critical/dangerous. When your operating at track speed (often 79mph) "things" tend to happen REALLY fast so having both ears open is a critically important asset!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

People become aware of the noises around them and what is normal and what is not normal.

Some years ago I recall talking with a machinist with a transit agency and she told of being able listen to her machine and its work in the machine shop. She could turn away from the work and even step away from the machine and still know how the work was going by ear. Amongst all the other noise in the shop she could detect when her machine and job had a problem and quickly return.

I know a computer system administrator who identified within a few minutes when a server was hacked because noise of the hard drive changed when the hacker turned on an application that normally didn't run on that system.

Bob

Although my time on the left side is limited, I was surprised in how much my ears tell me. I work on a through boiler design locomotive so I can't see or much hear my engineer. Not the ideal conditions for firing oil. But listing will tell me about throttle position, brake applications and the like. I can't imagine having headphones on during the process.

First of all, obviously there's a big difference between the typical tourist railroad and the big engines running down the mainline at speed. Another steam engineer I worked with got a cab ride in the 4449 as it headed down the BNSF mainline, and he said "That was almost scary! Everything happens so fast, and it's so intense... It was incredible." It's also all business when they start rolling.

By comparision, the typical tourist railroad crew has a couple of advantages. They know the line, often having hundreds if not thousands of trips over it. Many tourist lines don't have meets and signals and CTC etc. They know the engine, having worked on it frequently. Often they know the engineer/fireman, knowing the subtle and not so subtle, differences between the crewmen. That makes it a lot more like a typical day at work and there's not much communication needed unless something unusual happens. Even then, crewmembers can typically tell what's going on by the sound of the engine and exhaust, air brakes etc.

As others have mentioned, you really need to hear what the engine is doing, and that's why I would be very hesitant to wear ear muff style headsets and hearing protection. However, I will be the first to admit that not wearing them will cause hearing damage. Trust me, I know. So there could definitely be justification for it.

As an example, when we get down to the bottom of the hill on our line and are ready to come back home, I check with the fireman by aksing "You ready to go?" just to be sure he's (or rarely she's) is comfortable in regard to water and steam pressure etc. The response is almost always "Yes". I then radio the conductor we're ready, he gives me the highball, and off we go. When the fireman hears "higball" and my reply, there's no need to explain we're leaving. Typically we can run most of the trip back without saying anything, as the fireman knows the line, and the noise of the exhaust tells him everything he needs to know.

This is nearly the exact oppposite of what would be required from the crew of 844 / 4449 / 3751 or some other mainline loco heading down the main at 60 mph with meets and signals and warrants and...

So, like with most things, generalizations aren't applicable to all situations.

From my own experience, lots of common cab tasks require listening to the engine. Example: starting and stopping the injectors. When I started a lifting injector, I listened for the "click" of the water flow while cracking the injector, before opening the injector full. I also had to listen for blowback in case the injector failed to transition. These are very weak sounds against the engine at speed.

Another important sound is air concussion or vibration in the firebox, caused by holes in fires or odd air flows. I was taught this was bad for the boiler, and to correct it by filling holes. Again, another subtle, weak sound.

Plus, easy talk leads to information overload and distraction. Are there going to be many more voices on that channel?

We just returned from a ride on the sternwheel steamer Chatauqua Belle in New York, and I found the engineer relying on a headset instead of bell signals from the pilot. I noticed a surprising lack of certainty in the engineers speech. I stood there and listened to him repeat statements and query the pilot as to what to do next. "What are we doing now?" "No, we are still going astern" "No, the boat is still tied to the dock" "Do you want me to go full astern now?" and on and on. I believe the engine command would have been clearer and faster if they returned to the bell signals.

Any history has to how they handled engineer-fireman coms on a beast like this:


http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=592

With gaping dual firebox doors, large drivers, and open foot plate, this must have been a hell of a ride for the fireman.

Bob

Hey guys. When I fire, I will use hearing protection at grade crossings because our steamers' whistles aren't too far from my seatbox, and I'd like to preserve as much of my hearing as possible. However, once we're clear of the road, the plugs come out so I don't miss a call from my engineer, or a sound that's out of the ordinary. I've noticed that while our cab radios are clear, sometimes the crewman on the other end isn't, and two sets of ears in the cab can be helpful to nail down the move or at least establish the need to call for clarification. So I suppose that headsets could be an asset in that situation. However, I think that as so many in this thread(with much more experience than I) have put it, the real issue seems to be leaving all of your senses as unfettered as possible since a steam engineer needs them to detect something with their engine that's not right. I've noticed several times(particularly on shoves when crew on the other end is protecting/controlling the move) that my engineer will be giving me this kind of blank stare from across the cab. I'm thinking to myself, "What is this guy looking at?" All the while, he's not looking at anything, but really just deep in thought as he tries to "feel" what the locomotive's doing. I hope to get to the right side and develop that same feel one day. God bless. Seth

When I'm running I NEED all my senses...not only to hear what is going on,but also to hear what is not going on.My fireman and I usually do not talk to eah other much during a run...we gesture if we need to say anything.As long as the water is right,the fire is bright,and the steam is up,not much is said.Occasionally the radio intrudes but since the speaker is right by my head,I can usually hear it even barking up a grade with a tonnage train. the few times I have been able to ride the cabs of big engines,everybody was calling signals in the cabs( per rule) and for things like downgrades and such hand signals sufficed.However I do know of a tourist railroad which requires hearing protection,but is not generally followed by the crews for the reasons outlined above.

It's comforting to know that even though this is not my Dad's railroad any more that the operating people are on the same wavelength as I am when running.
In spite of all of the improvements and new revelations, your nose, eyes, ears and butt are still the most advanced technology for running a steam engine.