So the question is this, just WHO appointed you arbitor over who is a shock jock, troll, ect. and I am absolutely sure that there are many things that ARE acceptable to YOU that would both disgust and horrify me, but I have in no way posited that YOU shouldn't have the right, (yes the RIGHT...something outlined in a little read nor properly understood document that could soon be in for a drubbing) to counter with your perspective.

It is always those with the weakest, most reasonless point that wants to silence the other side.

BTW I fully agree that consumerism is way, way out of hand (but most who say that really mean the other fellows' consumerism, not his own), urban sprawl is destroying this country, (taxing its infrastructure, covering irreplaceable agricultural land for roads, McMansionous suburbs), and am one of the few farmers (yes, I have a day job to support a farming habit) that believes (knows!?!) that making ethanol from corn, and not sugar, is a perversely wasteful, borderline crime. If the world were up to me, I'd tax cheap slave made Chinese goods to the point that they aren't cheap anymore, you wouldn't live in the country unless you had a real need to (no suburbs), and there would be a streetcar on every street, interurbans in every village, coal trains would be powered by coal, and chickens in every pot, or at least cabbage for the vegans.

But real liberty also means that folks have the freedom to be stupid. It just so happens that I believe that limiting coal use and production fall into the latter catagory.

[quote="jim templin"] I am absolutely sure that there are many things that ARE acceptable to YOU that would both disgust and horrify me, but I have in no way posited that YOU shouldn't have the right, (yes the RIGHT...something outlined in a little read nor properly understood document that could soon be in for a drubbing) to counter with your perspective. *** But real liberty also means that folks have the freedom to be stupid. [/quote]

Jim,

Your assertion that the "little read nor properly understood document" you refer to "could soon be in for a drubbing" is perhaps the height of irony in the wake of eight years of Guantanamo, Homeland Security, etc., etc. Leaving the politics aside, it's hard to imagine a credible argument that Constitutional rights have been enhanced under the Bush administration.

But do you seriously believe that "the freedom to be stupid" or "the right to counter" things you find acceptable is Constitutional in nature, or that the liberties guaranteed in that document somehow apply to interpersonal conduct? "Congress shall make no law *** abridging the freedom of speech." The government hasn't done that here on RyPN anytime I'm aware of. Whatever the source of the "right" you've arrogated to yourself to say whatever you want, and graciously grant to those who may disagree with you, it's simply nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

[quote="jim templin"] It is always those with the weakest, most reasonless point that wants to silence the other side. [/quote]

How true.

G.J.C.

What does the last eight years or the Bush administration have to do with the discussion herein?

BTW Rights are granted by Providence; they are a part of the fundamental nature of a free citizenry, and our glorious Constitution merely illuminates and protects those rights from the over reach of imperfect men and over zealous government.

One could be taken a little more seriously if they had the guts to use their real name, and not hide.

It was bad for the constitution and most everything else under Bush and the Republicans, and it will be bad for the constitution and most everything else (just a different most everything else) under Obama and the Democrats.

There will be only one consistency over the longterm future; its going to be really bad for us all!

Can we please talk about things that will "unify" us, not "divide" us. (Now you both have me sounding like Rodney King during the L.A. Riots!)

I have an idea, lets talk about Trains and Railroads and even Railways! How could we possibly fight about those silly things?

[quote="jim templin"] What does the last eight years or the Bush administration have to do with the discussion herein? [/quote]

Jim, you stated earlier that the source of the right you identified is found in "a little read nor properly understood document that could soon be in for a drubbing." Weren't you referring to the United States Constitution? Believe me, it's already been drubbed.

[quote="jim templin"] BTW Rights are granted by Providence; they are a part of the fundamental nature of a free citizenry, and our glorious Constitution merely illuminates and protects those rights from the over reach of imperfect men and over zealous government. [/quote]

Oh, my mistake. I thought you had been trying to make a legal argument, but I now gather that by "little read nor properly understood document" you were describing the Bible. That's a very good description, with which I agree completely. But why do you think it "could soon be in for a drubbing?"

[quote="jim templin"] One could be taken a little more seriously if they had the guts to use their real name, and not hide.[/quote]

Another excellent point. Indeed, if only you would stop calling yourself "Jim Templin" and use your real name from now on, whatever it is, I'm sure you could be taken much more seriously.

G.J.C.

It was the constitution, and Jim Templin is the name of my birth certificate, drivers license, FRA required engineers rules card, the multiple pressure vessel inspection commissions held, my lodge memberships, and my ordination papers.

maybe "socialist troll" would be an appropriate moniker for you, since I am fairly sure knowing the biography of the man, that Churchward would be less than enthusiastic with someone of your ilk using his good name.

You see, folks? THIS is why we can't have nice things.

Okay, moderators, shut 'er down.

Well, it has been a few days since I have had a chance to jump on RyPN and read anything. Sandy...I don't know how you come up with some of the things you write! Your "political debate" post was hilarious and "just what the doctor ordered" this morning. Very witty! I got a good chuckle out of it, as I think you were intending.

Come on folks...life is too short and if you don't like what you read, you don't always have to respond. I'm working my a** off trying to get our new planetarium and science museum open and reading posts here is usually a bright spot in my day...usually...but sometimes I wonder...

Thanks, Sandy.