Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning. I remember reading that a couple years ago, amazed at the presenter's revered tone, and wondering if he realized that the paint and lettering couldn't possibly be original for a railroad that had disappeared over 120 years before, and the roof, being laid over a layer of plywood, couldn't possibly be "original fabric" either. The roof was likely replaced at the then Lake Superior Transportation Museum, with the purpose of obtaining a historically correct exterior as cost effectively as possible, with no regard to the interior. Problem is, the interior is significant to the Mill City display, and the modern material shows. Given that the purpose was to display the car as worn but maintained as in service, they could have replaced the roof with the proper double layer of boards, and the result would have simply looked like an old car that had been recently re-roofed.

But, hey, what do I know? The presenter likely has a degree in museology, and I don't.

Dennis -

I also wondered about the cars current lettering (St. Paul & Pacific) since the car was originally supposed to have been purchased by the St. Paul, Minnesota & Manitoba Railway. Is the StP&P a later name of that railroad? Perhaps that lettering is correct, but I just don't know.

Les

I'm no expert on the GN, Les, but the St.Paul & Pacific name is mentioned in this history:

https://www.gnrhs.org/gn_history.htm

So it seems likely it is correct for the period.

Okay Dennis, thanks for that clarification. Also appreciate your advising of the car in the first place. Also thanks to Brian for his info on the Soo Line car in St. Paul and to John for advising about the Great Northern flat car in the state of Washington. Looks like there are a few old cars out there being used for interpretation.

Les

Interestingly, I just happened to be at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum (formerly the Lake Superior Transportation Museum mentioned in the restoration text) this past weekend. They are now the repository of the 4-4-0 William Crooks and two reproduction passenger cars. The Wm. Crooks is lettered for the First Division, St. Paul & Pacific. Some of the photos on the display showed the Wm. Crooks with a tiny period boxcar to contrast with big modern steam power, and a big, modern (for the time) boxcar. I suspect that this was the boxcar, and the lettering was done by the GN as part of the historic Wm. Crooks display.

I suppose the Mill City museum takes the position that if the GN lettered it, it must be historically accurate, whether it actually is or not.

Hi,

I thought I'd never though of this possibility. After having thought about it, I see many places where this has been done.

One for instance is in Cimmaron, CO. The area is below a dam on the Gunnison River that flows east from Gunnison CO.

A very long story short, The NPS has the area as an interpretive display of Cimmaron in its heyday before the dame and the D&RG mainline from Gunnison through Cimmaron to Montrose was in operation.

One of the steel deck truss bridges with C16 class #278 a box car and short caboose are standing over a creek in a canyon.

The county/NPS road is on the grade about 1/2 mile from the bridge to a wider spot in the canyon where several tracks of the old helper station were placed on the old grade. There are 2-3 stock cars next to the stock pens, a MOW box car converted for the track MOW crews, and though I have not seen it, there is an engine house where the old helper roundhouse/turntable stood for the climb out of the Gunnison River canyon on 4% grades to Cerro Summit and on west. It shows and displays the stock pens normal to the area and the helper station with photos and memorabilia.

I think there is more out there than I originally thought.

Doug vV

I'm not sure which line served the Hawes elevator.

Les

Les,
This elevator is located on the old PRR which was purchased by the Illinois Terminal during its final years to bypass their Mackinaw River Bridge after it collapsed under a train at Mackinaw Jct, IL. I believe the collapse occurred in the summer of 1977.

Don C.

Don -

Thanks for the explanation that the Hawes elevator was originally served by the Pennsy and possibly by the IT at the end.

Also, a thank you to Doug vV for the explanation of the NPS displays in the Cimmaron, Colorado area.

Les

The Bayshore Discovery Project http://bayshorecenter.org/ museum in Bivalve (Port Norris) NJ has a outside braced wooden CNJ box car. I think it's about 1915 vintage. The car is on a short section of track next to the museum, which is in an old oyster packing house. They have the car, because millions of pounds of oysters were shipped out by rail until disease wiped out the Delaware Bay oyster industry.

The good news is that the car is preserved. Unfortunately it's within 100' of the Maurice River, and very close to where the river empties into the Delaware Bay. This is a salt water environment and subject to coastal flooding. During a spring tide, it's just a couple feet about sea level. It is exactly where box cars were spotted for loading, so it's historically correct.

I could not find a good picture on the web, next time I'm there I will get a picture. You can see pipes sticking up from car's roof. The museum has installed restrooms in the car and those are the plumbing vent stacks. I have not seen the interior.

Otherwise the car has good paint job and looks good. I don't know how accurate the reporting marks are. I'd like to get them a couple old, used air hoses to mount on the ends of the car.

I copied this image from their website home page. There are a couple more distant pictures on their exhibits page.

Mark -

Thanks very much for this info. I was able to read the road number on the end of the boxcar from one of the photos on their website (CNJ #17144) and thus came up with this photo:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4208032

According to the info, the car was built by the CNJ in 1916 and was donated, painted and lettered by the UHRS. A couple of old air hoses is a good idea and would be a nice touch, as would a few feet of the end of the running boards on the roof.


Les

Central Railroad of New Jersey 17239 is pictured in the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, and the reporting marks, and the major lettering, is correct for that time. The data seems to be the post-1926 arrangement, and the lines above the initials and below the number are post WWII, but the car is likely lettered correctly for some period.

As for the running board, many, many places leave them off because they just KNOW they are not going to last, and become a maintenance headache. This is an application where I'd recommend TREX. I know some people have cited bad experience with TREX, but if they have gotten their production problems sorted and can supply material like I used on my deck, it will have a fife measured in multiple decades. My deck has been in for eighteen years now, and there has been absolutely NO change to the TREX boards.