Richard,

A lottery to benefit preservation like in the UK? Now that's something I'd love to see here.

Rob

A database is nice, but there has to be a way of generating action to save such cars. The NYC elevated car at the K&K is another one that could use a safe home and has been posted here before. I've harped on the Rutland car up in Vermont and there are others that have been covered in RyPN.

Another thread talks about the role RyPN plays in preservation. What we are talking about right here is where RyPN can play a critical role.

There has to be a way to save such cars. A small cadre of people around the country who can at least work with the current owners and keep the cars covered while investigating new homes? Call it the "RyPN SRU?" The NYC car at a minimum I'd be interested in the disassembled body (I doubt it can be moved as is) but I don't have the time to get out there to do the work. How can the RyPN community help in that case? There's a wood plow here in NJ that could use some expert support as well.

Just some ideas. There has to be a way to make this work.

J.R.

Why?

I take the fact that we continually see artifacts of this sort being scrapped as an indication that there is still too much junk out there. Otherwise, we would not have seen, in the last two or three years:

An intact NKP wood coach offered free to any taker, with loading assistance provided…. From lack of any firther discussion, I assume there were no takers, and the car has been scrapped.

A intact and cosmetically restored B&M wood coach, the subject of a series of articles here by David Woodbury. I can no longer find the last parts of his article, but I'm sure he made the offer to GIVE the car to a good home… Again, apparently no takers.

If a car that is complete, cosmetically restored, and pleasing to look at can't be given away, there is truly no hope for a weather-beaten basket case. Everyone here keeps saying what good condition the car in Lunenburg was in, but this photo tells me a different story:



The general condition of the belt rail, coupled to the outward bulge in the car side, leads me to believe that most or all the car posts had a problem with rot where they passed through the window sill, and therefore the car would have been a huge project to restore. Most owners of wooden rolling stock already have more than enough huge projects to last several lifetimes.

Someone mentioned that all the interest here seems to be centered on restoring steam locomotives. That's true, and amongst the groups with restored locomotives, keeping it running consumes a disproportionate amount of the available funds, leaving nothing for the train. I'm appalled when I see groups celebrating the acquisition of a bi-level gallery commuter coach to run behind their engine, but I see their point, hopefully it will run a few years without needing a major cash infusion. There are very few museums or tourist railroads that have made a commitment to maintain a train that is in keeping with the motive power; Strasburg is the only one that comes to mind at the moment, and they don't even claim to be a museum. However, I think they've discovered the secret most the rest of us have missed; they're not just selling steam, but the whole experience. Railfans might think it would be really cool to ride on the tender with the coal, but the general public is looking for something else.

Back to the remaining wood coaches in the world just waiting to be scrapped; they are going to be scrapped if the resources needed to save them keep getting diverted to purchase clapped out Cor-Ten junk because it is perceived to be easier to fix.

Lets not overlook the growing number of obsticles to potential restorations of this sort that have nothing to do with the physical worthiness of the car- or its historical value for that matter. Whether it's zoning, county codes, or city ordinances, it's certainly not getting any easier to place a railcar on private property for preservation. Consider the hypothesis outlined already in this thread: good candidate car, right price, no interested musuems. Private citizen decides to put his money where his mouth is, and preserve the car (and for these purposes, we'll assume the citizen has the financial, technical, and mechanical means to do so). However, during his pre-purchase research, he learns of the various codes or ordinances standing in his way, which at very least may require a complicated or strangely expensive permit. The project becomes a no-go before it ever gets off the ground.

I lived this (but triumphed) when I bought my caboose. In my opinion, we shoot ourselves in the foot every time a piece of equipment is acquired for "preservation", and the new owner lets it sit for an indefinite period of time in some state of decay, only to be accessorized annually by the requisite blue tarp that turns to shreds within 6 months, but like last years Christmas lights, isn't taken down for some reason. Over time counties and cities see this, and they don't see history, they see an eyesore. Ordinances are past, and opportunities are lost.

David Woodbury's coach is now nicely displayed at a depot and RR covered bridge in Contoocook, NH. Here's a link to a recent video of the site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCbGO5Qtfrs

As to the coach in Lunenburg, MA, my sources have (unfortunately) informed me that the trucks and hardware were sold for scrap.

Well, I'm glad to see it found a home. It would have been nice if someone here would have taken a break from all the April Fools tomfoolery to give us a report on it.

The video does point out the next problem, however. Unless the folks in Contoocook have a budget to keep heat in the car year round, we are just looking at the precursor of the car that was in Lunenburg . Standing outside it will eventually leak, the paint will get shabby and rot will set in. Knowing not what to do, the owners will cover it with a tarp, and when they decide that a tarpped car detracts from their depot scene rather than adds to it, we will be lamenting the fate of this car here soon enough.

It's a sad fact, but true… if the intention is to preserve an example of the carbuilder's art, the car must go indoors. If the intention is to complete an outdoor scene, then the restoration needs to be done with materials that have considerably more weather resistance than the original fabric had.

It seems that very little work has been done to address these issues to date.

OK, that right there is one of the truest truisms of truth evah!

Rob

There's a term that folks who are in the emergency response or military medical fields (or those who watch TV shows dealing with such activities) are familiar with: triage. In railway preservation many groups are at the point where we can't save everything we think ought to be saved, so some cars/locomotives/buildings must be sacrificed to make resources available for projects with better hope of success. And yes, back in the 20th Century, we had more "boondocks", where there were no neighbors to complain about what one writer called, "an oddly specialized dump". Today, the same NIMBY forces that plague light-rail and commuter train projects make life difficult for some museums and other preservation efforts. Regarding moving relics on the commercial railroad system: when I see some of the cars that came to my "home museum" on their own wheels fifty years ago, I can only wonder what a present-day inspector would have said. (like "what part of NO don't you understand?")

Ok then perhaps if i write this in BIG letters it will remain in all of your memories.........................

PLEASE HELP US TO FIND............. 4 WHEEL WOOD PULLMAN STYLE TRUCKS,
HANDBRAKES AND STANDS
PLATFORM RAILINGS AND CAR HANDRAILS
TRUSS RODS AND BRAKE GEAR, GAS TANKS,
COUPLERS, FOUR BRANCH PINTSCH GAS LAMPS!
FLIP OVER SEATS, STOVES.
thanks
Mike
Cheyenne
307-221-2371

You know, it is entirely possible that the scrapper might still have these items intact... possibly waiting for scrap prices to rebound...perhaps the dealer can be contacted?

Being one who's restoring a Pullman car (thankfully under cover) I have some understanding of the work involved. It's sad to see a car like this being scrapped, but reality's reality. Even sadder, though, to think that much needed parts for good projects could be going to waste.
If they're going to be scrapped, it'd be nice to think that they were offered up for parts first.

[quote="JR May"]A database is nice, but there has to be a way of generating action to save such cars.

To be totally cynical, good luck! Our sedentary society would much rather participate in their Internet groups than head out into the field to preserve pieces for the future.

[quote="JR May"] I've harped on the Rutland car up in Vermont and there are others that have been covered in RyPN.

Which Rutland car in VT? There are quite a few that are in dire need of attention, never mind the RPO in NH, and those forgotten in museums.

I have had some interesting observations from having participated in the rescue of and partial restoration of three pieces of Rutland equipment, before my untimely accident made it impossible for me to continue.

While attempting to raise money for this project I found that many buffs were more interested in purchasing a new model for their layout, than they were in donating to the preservation and restoration of the prototype that they were modeling. I'd suggest that they buy a model for $X, and donate a matching amount to the cause, to no avail.

Then there is the restoration process. In the heat of the moment everyone wants to help out, but when it comes time to get hands dirty, there are more excuses than a criminal going to jail. You would think that these folks had never done simple repairs on their homes, or had gotten dirt under their finger nails.

I'll put my soapbox away for another few months! ;-)

Romi Romano

[quote="Romi Romano You would think that these folks had never done simple repairs on their homes, or had gotten dirt under their finger nails.[/quote]

And you would be unfortunately correct in many cases. I don't know if it is generational or cultural or maybe both and more, but skills that were common even 30 years ago are growing rarer in a large segment of the population. My nieces are brilliant scholarship students - one out of grad school, one still in college - neither can rewire a lamp or change a tire. I can't recall any boyfriends of theirs having that capability either. We no longer teach wood or metal working in high school. Non academic track kids now are semiprepared for community colleges, to learn at that level these basic skills, or basic entry level apprenticeship requirements for skilled trades. I know many people in my midboomer generation that can't change faucet washers, overhaul a toilet or replace a faulty electrical outlet.

I think there's a mystique surrounding a lot of this stuff that is in reality mostly common sense and a little experiential learning applied practically. Shame so many are scared off.

dave

Every one of these statements is an indication of the troubles railway museums have in making their work permanent.

It's absolutely not a problem of enough volunteers to do the work. Enormous amounts of money and energy go into the work at hand. The problem is that the weather is right behind them undoing the work as fast as they do it. It's very hard to get ahead.

What makes it HARDER to get ahead is the fact that many railway museums operate in "tourist railway mode". They believe their #1 revenue source is from the train ride, and the train ride MUST continue or they are dead.

As a result, the effort gets put into bare sustenance (and Cor-Ten) instead of into something game-changing that would put the museum in a more easily sustainable position.

Let's look at a top-quality carbarn capable of arresting further rot. That's an unspeakable dream for most railway museums - but is it REALLY so expensive? BAERA built one, but it was silver-plated and in California... factor that out and I think you could easily do it for $800k. Figure 350 feet x 7 tracks (in a pure storage config)... that's $326 per track foot, or about $23k for a 70-foot wood coach.

Scary... but not unreachable. You'll certainly spend much more than that on any decent restoration. The $23k means the car survives, and then your work survives.

Yes, I know it's hard to make that leap. Railway preservation tends to be stuck in bare survival mode - gotta get this year's train running, or the organization is dead. Every year. There has to be a way out of the vicious cycle.

Figure that out - that's how you'll save the cars.

I think it's partially a combination of both. I've seen young and old baffled by simple house repairs, and when people find out I've "Oh my gosh" sanded wood floors or "It's so incredibly difficult" done drywall or "Don't you worry about getting electrocuted?" electrical repairs (or, believe it or not, "You've done that before?" *painting*), I find it kind of amusing.

But, on the other hand, I've known college age kids who called their landlord for "excessive flies", so I wouldn't put it past either conclusion.