That addictive YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXNkcS75 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4_fL633 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1W87--4Ldc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFMiU36Z ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnrXfDZ0wWo

Enjoy.

I understand that a lot of these questions are just "what if" and generally the railroad version of "hangar flying" rather than any kind of a serious proposal. Heck, I asked one a few weeks ago about re-connecting the D&SNG and the C&TS. While it was fun to ponder, I've mentally filed it under "Ain't never gonna happen".

So, given that understanding of how this was tossed out there purely as discussion fodder, let me ask you a question in reply?

Let's say I've won the Irish Sweepstakes. I've got more money than I can count, and I've used billions of it to get through the approval and engineering process. Let's also imagine that I've got the permits from the state of Florida, the EPA, the Coast Guard, and who knows how many other agencies... I tell them I'll relocate the highway, where needed, at my expense.

So, I'm ready to build the line. I call Bill Gates and Warren Buffet up and they say "We're in, let's do it! Here's a blank check, go rebuild that puppy. Oh, and while you're at it, we need trains, so make a couple NYC Hudsons, one streamlined and one not, so we can run passenger trains. Have 'em finally finish that frigging K4 too, while we're at it, can't have the NYC without the Pennsy! Oh, and better build a FEC Pacific or two and a couple strings of coaches. Money's no object, just 'Git 'er done!' "

(Pretty good daydreaming, eh? No, I'm not smoking anything, thought it would have to be some powerful stuff to come up with that kind of lunacy...)

OK, so we've got the thing done. Now what? Precisely what would the line haul, and to where? Trainloads of tourists to Key West? Sure, I suppose... But that's about it. Oh, and since the highway parallels the track the whole way, you'd better have cheap fares, or they'll just stay in their air conditioned cars. Good luck paying off the construction loan!

You wouldn't get any freight business, as there's no industry there. No freight or passenger service to Cuba either, which is why the line originally was built. So all you have is a passenger railroad closely paralleled by a main highway.

So that's my question to you. Aside from "Because it's there!" (Well, a few pieces of it are...) why would you rebuild it and what would you do with it when you're done?

Bob -

You wouldn't build the whole line. What would be the purpose? What you might consider building is a VERY small portion. One Key to the next, preferably two that are close to one another, using the original viaducts. Put a genuine FEC locomotive hauling two or three genuine FEC passenger cars, an open flat car and maybe a FEC caboose and live off of the tourists that go by. No different than what other tourist lines are doing, except that this one can also be an explanation as to the original "Railroad that went to Sea" and the history behind the development of the Keys.

Yes, I know it won't be done, but plausible perhaps.

Les

This is one of my favorites...

The Overseas Railway was an incredible achievement by any standards in any time. What is still standing is a testament of a man with a great vision and the money to make it happen. The fact that any of it is still standing 100 years later says something about its construction. What is left is what it is and is something to remind us of what someone with a vision and the drive to make it happen can do.

There is more to Henry Flagler than just the Overseas Railway. There is much of what Henry did in Florida still standing and in use. His hotels in St. Augustine, the churches he built there, the brick paved streets and even the homes and dormitories he built for his employees to live in. In Palm Beach id the Breakers Hotel and Henry's home Whitehall. Much of the Florida East Coast is still in operation. Interestingly when it comes right down to it this all started as a tourist railway, so Henry could bring his guest to his hotels and the freight paid the bills.

It is said that the two people who did the most for the development of Florida were Henry Flagler and Walt Disney. The two main industries in Florida are Agriculture and Tourism. So to the original post come down to Florida and enjoy all it has to offer, see what is left of Henry's original railway to Key West. If you have time stop and see his beautiful hotels and churches in St. Augustine. Oh and by the way stop and see some of the roadside stand and spend some money. It helps pay someones wages.

Hmm......I could swear that a few years back there was some talk about rebuilding it as a commuter type operation......something about heavy traffic on the new bridges....
If you think about it, it could be done......it would be extremely expensive, but a passenger service to Key West would probably make good money and could pay for itself in time. It just depends on your time scale......Flagler was thinking, probably, 50 to 100 years ahead, few people think like that anymore.
Then there's the Cuba question....sooner or later, probably sooner, trade will restart and Key West is a good jumping off point for ferry service to Cuba.....that would be ferry's carrying cars and trucks......if a railroad existed there, you could have freight traffic to Cuba, ie: citrus, sugar, bulk grain, etc.....
It's only time and money! if it costs a billion or two who cares... we can always print more........Its a perfect "shovel ready" project........lol!

I don't see where it has been mentioned in this thread, but I believe part of the highway to KW is built upon some of the old railroad bridge structure...

Stephen

In the early 1980s, new lanes of U.S. Rte. 1 were built with new bridges a few feet to the side of the recycled railroad bridges that had been used for the late 1930s version of the Overseas Highway. I'm not sure of the situation at the North end between Florida City and Key Largo. Right now, the paved over railroad bridges are mostly used for fishing and hiking piers.

Commerce with Cuba is really not a justification for the "dream rebuilding." Railcar ferries carried rail commerce to and from Cuba out of the FEC port facilities at Riviera Beach until Castro's revolution. That could easily be reinstated if the embargo was lifted. When I was growing up in West Palm Beach you could see the railcar ferries running down the coast.

Also, as info...
Florida Motor Lines, the predecessor to Greyound, and later Greyhound, filled the need for passenger travel after the demise of the railroad. At one time before all the road bridges were completed there were ferries that carried passengers for the buses between some of the keys.

It was not unusual for the bus line to send 8 or 9 buses on the midnight schedule to Key West when we still had relations with Cuba. The bus arrived in Key West around 6am and the ferry for Havana sailed at 7am. Havana was ag ambler's haven in those days. Likewise, there was a reverse schedule with extra sections on Sunday nights arriving back in Miami in the morning.
I realize that's more bus history than rail history, but it is related.
Bill

Didn't see this mentioned in the thread. Pardon me if I repeat.

A great book on the FEC with a lot of information on the Key West extention is:
"Speedway to Sunshine" by Seth Bramson. I also has track charts that include the Keys.
Bill

Tourist railway? Only if you don't include the freight. FEC built the closest East coast port to the Panama Canal and to many other Latin American destinations for shiploads of goods - much more important than its tourist business.

dave

Henry Flagler first got into the railway business to support his hotels in St. Augustine. (The Nations Oldest City) The railway was how Henry got the workers and materials to build the hotels and make the many improvements that he made to the city. That was so that he could bring his wealthy friends to his "American Rivera" that he built. I would say that qualified them as tourist.

Henry had bought up the small lines around St. Augustine (built in the early 1860's) that were narrow gauge and converted them to standard gauge. That happened in the 1880's. Once the Ponce de Leon, Alkazar and Cordova were opened in St. Augustine Henry started building the railway south and building hotels along the way, once again tourism.

Keep in mind that before that before that there were very few cites south of St. Augustine that had a population of over 200 people. There was no freight business in Florida before that. Henry was instrumental in developing the agricultural industry in Florida along with real estate through his Model Land Company. Much of that agriculture was to supply Henry's hotels with fresh produce for his guests.

When the railway reached Palm Beach and he settled into his Whitehall Mansion and had the Breakers Hotel built there was another freeze that wiped out all the citrus trees. There had been no freeze in Miami so he built the railway on south to Miami.

It wasn't till April of 1905 that Henry announced the "extension" to Key West. Yes, that portion of the line was built to be the closest sea port to the Panama Canal. As mentioned earlier in this thread the freight business never did develop because the ships were converted from coal to oil at that time.

Still to this day tourism and agriculture drive Florida's economy. Most of the freight is coming into the state to support the population than now resides in the sunshine.

A few years ago, I had the occasion ro be in the Miami area for an FRA seminar, and met several FEC managers and a VP who absolutely loved their railroad. In fact, I was their guest for a couple extra days I spent riding FEC freights. Their professionalism and enthusiasm were fantastic, and they had a good relationship with fans in the area.
All that brings me to a question...with the sseveral extant FEC steamers out there, I always wondered why no one has tried to operate excursions on the FEC. With Rail America now running the show, it may or may not be more friendly to such an operation. Anyone have any ideas?

here is an interesting facebook group about hopes for passenger service on the FEC.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1067957 ... d_to_group

For anyone in the area of Palm Beach, Florida, The Flagler Museum has just opened a new exhibit entitled "The First train to Paradise - The Railroad That Went to Sea." This is located at the Museum which is in Henry Flagler's former home on Palm Beach. An added bonus is his fully restored private car that you can go thorugh.