If memory serves me, the President of the T&P called in a favor from the NYC management.

I remember that sometime in the mid to late 1980's that Conrail was considering starting a steam program and that the 3001 was the engine they were looking at. Did anyone else ever hear that and if so how close did it come to being reality?

It came very close to being reality, cut short by the untimely death of Richard Sanborn, CR's then-new CEO; he had been in that position only a few months before his death.

The 3001 was apparently surveyed with a CR corporate steam program in mind; the engine was considered large enough to handle a long train (longer than the 1361, for example).

I think there are people on this board who can supply much more detail about this episode.

Howard P.

[quote="Les Beckman"]Jeff -

Thanks for posting the photo. The 3001 looks remarkably good as a stand-in Texas & Pacific 4-8-2.

Did the railroad really have a 909?

Les[/quote]

Les,
Yes, there was a real T&P 909. She was the final 4-8-2 in the M-2 Class. Here is a link to a photo of her in service.

http://www.texaspacificrailway.org/?id=683&c=45

I find it interesting the the T&P had to go "shopping" for a display locomotive (NYC 3001) and for an operating locomotive (FW&D 410 now displayed in Marshall, TX, as T&P 400) after all of their locomotives were disposed of. A strange turn of events at the end of the steam era.

Don C.

Don -

Thanks for the photo of the "real" T&P #909. The photo made me realize that one thing the T&P shop crews DIDN'T do when using the 3001 to replicate the engine, is give her a flanged stack. Seems like this would have been relatively easy to do, and made her look even more like a genuine Texas & Pacific 4-8-2.

Les

Has anyone been in the Elkhart museum lately?
If so, is there a live steam New York Central locomotive inside?
I have been told that a locomotive that my great uncle built is in this museum but I haven't been able to confirm it. I believe it is a mowhawk as well but I don't know for sure.
The locomotive was built by Richard Stolzenfels
any help would be great!
thanks,
Matt

Adding to Howard's post, it was a fact the 3001 was intended to be leased by Conrail for a steam program in the mid-1980's, as we (CR) then recognized we were the only Eastern road without such a program at the time.

The plan was made by CR's then Senior VP-Operations, R.B. Hasselman, to survey the engine, which was found to be in good condition, though its grates were missing. Conversion to burn oil had been considered. The work to restore the engine would have likely been done at CR's Reading Shop, as they were believed to be best suited for handling a project such as this.

A substantial trade of switchers with Amtrak was arranged, with CR receiving (among other things) 10 matched Budd-built coaches (ex NYC 29xx series) for the planned service.

Messrs. Hasselman and Crane were pleased with the progress of the plan, believing this would help CR to win additional friends in its effort to "privatize" the company, as an alternative to the takeover on terms then sought by NS' Robert Claytor (which had the active support of then Sec. DOT Elizabeth Dole). Then...

NS, had its "event" with the 611 in The Great Dismal Swamp, and it became very difficult - almost impossible - to convince the underwriters in the insurance industry to cover these types of passenger operations.

To seal matters, CR's own "event" at Chase MD in early 1987 finished off any chance for such a program on CR.

To clarify one fact, this plan was dead in '87 - more than a year before Dick Sanborn came to us from CSX.

Paul, thanks for posting and clarifying my muddy recollections (of an outsider, to boot!).

I recall hearing at the time he became CEO, there being some hope that Mr. Sanborn would/might institute some form of steam program at CR. Whether it would have been a reconsideration of the 3001 project, or another locomotive, I cannot recall. And, that thought/rumor (of a Sanborn Steam Program) my also be one of my muddy recollections....

Howard P.

I remember Dick Sanborn as an accessible and forward-thinking CEO, and I believe he would have been receptive to the operation of a steam program - if the business climate (i.e., availability of insurance coverages) and operating environment had been more favorable at the time. During his short tenure as an "understudy" with Mr. Crane, and his much shorter time as our CEO, he simply was focused upon "frying the biggest fish first" - as any should have expected.

That's an interesting story on why the 2933 got saved. The other old-chestnut story that has been passed around was that local workers hid the engine with boxes in the roundhouse so the upper brass wouldn't see it, and that's how it remained until 1959/60. Another story that has been passed around is that one of the last Hudsons was offered to Jackson, MI for display, but the city declined it.

Chris.

The account of how 2933 was saved is very interesting and is consistent with a story related to me in the mid-1960's by the late Harold Potter, a retired NYC Purchasing Agent and neighbor.

At the time, I was a high school student and asked him why no NYC steam had been saved... his response was, in effect, "...actually, we did save an engine, and it was stored in a roundhouse stall for many years, until it was noticed the engine was still there and appeared to be in rough shape, so the decision was made to let it go..."

He didn't reveal if that engine had been donated or scrapped - in fact, I believe he retired from NYC around 1960.

He didn't identify the engine or the roundhouse location, but his story squares with the account of 5433 vs. 2933. As further information, this gentleman was personally familiar with NYC's process for sale of equipment, whether for scrap or otherwise.

I vaguely remember a NYC steamer rigged up as a snow melter in Indiana being the subject of a photo in Trains. Does anyone know about this? If it was the same engine, was this another tactic used to save the Mohawk now at MOT?

Evidently, Richard Kughn had also convinced Dick Sandborn to use his Reading 2100 on trips over CR as well before his death. CR also looked at the PRR M1 in Strasburg as potential power for a steam program, according to people who worked at the museum.

Chris.

During the time when Sandborn was in charge I stopped in to visit the 2100 in Hagerstown and the folks there told me they were near signing a deal with Conrail. They Sandborn was the man behind the deal and 1361 was also under consideration as well. A few months later I remember seeing a PV on the end of a Amtrak train through Wilmington and was told it was transporting Sandborn's body. All talk of Conrail steam ended there.