It is currently Mon Sep 28, 2026 7:58 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 419
Location: NJ
Stationary Steam wrote:
From the story it appears that the HS doesn't have a say in this. The executor of the estate is required to obtain this money as part of fulfilling the requirements of the will.



That is the way I read it to. The executor can't complete his job of closing out the estate until this debt has been repaid.

I don't know any of the players but it strikes me as a bit odd that Mr. Hart expressly wrote that the debt needed to be paid off by one "historic" group while giving the remainder of his estate to another historic group.....

_________________
cv the civil E in NJ


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Well, things I know from the SMRS case...

#1, it's not as simple as "the money owed". Either counterparty can manufacture an enormous amount of expense and also delay for the other; and all this *is* part of the negotiation.

#2. EXCEPT - one thing that is NOT negotiable is this: a nonprofit (the historical society) cannot confer private benefit to a for-profit entity - not ever. Trust me, this can be a real sticking point for the for-profit entities!

Yes, they can forgive the debt, but only in circumstances where an indifferent, "in it for the money" for-profit entity would have reasonably done the same thing. What is at stake? Their 501(c)(3) tax status.

#3. It really, really helps if parties talk to each other.

Here is the best outcome I can think of. The nonprofit forecloses on the for-profit. They take as payment full ownership of the for-profit, so the non-profit now owns all the stock of the for-profit. This changes the tax picture considerably. IANATL but I believe It can inure "private benefit" to a for-profit it wholly owns, since it is inuring benefit to itself, and presumably will recover that benefit if it sells the for-profit in the future.

The other thing a nonprofit can do is freely give assets to other nonprofits - such as the Friends organization. In other words, the sweet endgame here is the Friends ends up owning all the stock of the for-profit railroad company, lock stock and barrel.

Is that what the donor intended? You'd have to deep-dive into documented history to divine the donor's intent, and his level of business savvy in the nonprofit space.

In my observation, you never know - Pennsylvanians seem to have a lot of funny notions in the area of for-profit vs. non-profit in railroads.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
The York (PA) Sunday News published an article on the plight of the Stewartstown Railroad in today's issue:

http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_14073608


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:12 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Posts: 371
Well if the story is true it is really troubling. The guy pays the bills out of his own pocket for 20 years and then he asks the board to convert that into a loan? How do you do that?

_________________
SO


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:40 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
steamtown observer wrote:
Well if the story is true it is really troubling. The guy pays the bills out of his own pocket for 20 years and then he asks the board to convert that into a loan? How do you do that?


I think it is safe to say "with a naive board of directors who were still in awe of the benevolent George M. Hart."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Posts: 371
Ray Reter wrote:
I think it is safe to say "with a naive board of directors who were still in awe of the benevolent George M. Hart."


OK. I was involved in a similar situation where two major stockholders were putting in their own cash to keep the company going. It was deemed to be a contribution of capital. All of the other stockholders were given the opportunity to contribute a proportionate amount of cash. Some did and some didn't - those that did were issued additional stock in the company.

_________________
SO


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
steamtown observer wrote:
OK. I was involved in a similar situation where two major stockholders were putting in their own cash to keep the company going. It was deemed to be a contribution of capital. All of the other stockholders were given the opportunity to contribute a proportionate amount of cash. Some did and some didn't - those that did were issued additional stock in the company.


Actually, such a plan was proposed in the early 1990s, but Mr. Hart wasn't in favor of having the railroad issue more shares. The board followed Mr. Hart's wishes.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:49 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2599
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
With some some cash in hand they might be able to get a loan. Other options could be some sort of public-private partnership or stock could be issues to settle with debt.

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:53 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
Here's a link to a very positive editorial in today's York Sunday News (York, PA) on the plight of the Stewartstown Railroad.

http://ydr.inyork.com/ydr/opinion/ci_14100805


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The Latest: York County Stepping In
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:19 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12168
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
York County seems to be getting involved now:

http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_14127961

Note that, among other things, the county already has a separate Rail Trail Authority.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
The railroad's management is now soliciting offers for purchase of the railroad. See the posting on the Classifieds board.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:39 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2599
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
A great old photo of the Stewartstown just came through on railpictures.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 90&nseq=31

_________________
Tom Gears
Wilmington, DE

Maybe it won't work out. But maybe seeing if it does will be the best adventure ever.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1182
Given the date of this photo, as well as the rusted condition of the boxcar, this run may have been when the Stewartstown RR returned several freight cars to the Penn Central interchange at New Freedom. The cars had been trapped on the Stewartstown by the June 1972 Tropical Storm Agnes flooding that heavily damaged the PC's York-Baltimore line. After the Stewartstown returned the cars to the PRR, they were trucked out.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 255
Location: Baltimore
It is my understanding that the Bucks County Historical Society has now requested the Hart Estate to delay any collection action for 60 days to allow time for all three parties (the BCHS, the Hart Estate, and the railroad) to further discuss potential options. This is a welcomed development in this situation, undoubtedly thanks to the support the railroad has received from the public and the media.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stewartstown Railroad In Jeopardy From Historical Society?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 578
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
It seems we now have an additional party interjecting itself into this.

Comments, Gentlemen?

GME

http://www.codoruscreekrailway.com/

http://docs.stb.dot.gov/?sGet&Dl1XTH1WXw1zAAgEXBRdV0x6Sw1xfAAHXAIJCW4CH3ECdHEEWAUKCWcEHQECfRZUAl9JcUsOS1FELBZHO1dLS0ZcQQ0AfQQCS1RQVEpdTl1VcAIFWwEMDwoBamB0C20yOTgvMy8wME0wNww%3D

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readingroom.nsffc695db5bc7ebe2c852572b80040c45f/0c6e1be5434029dd852576bd0060adc2?OpenDocument


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: