This model railroad museum in Mentor, Ohio has plans that make use of this loco. Follow the links. I have no affiliation with the group and offer no commentary on the plans. I offer the info only as a sharing of previously published material in local media.

http://www.wrmrrm.org/

http://www.news-herald.com/articles/200 ... 442782.txt

all i have to say is get Jerry Jacobson on the phone, perhaps he still has enough funds left from his sale of the of the OC, it would make a great piece for his roundhouse group

and it sounds like it is been mothballed better than most steam we come across

;)


I am suprised hes not sniffing all over this one if it is in pittsburg

_________________

Christopher S

Rmne.org

I am thinking april 1st is a little early this year!!!!

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In the article:
The total cost to accomplish those goals is estimated at $13 million, including the $100,000 needed to move the acquisitions here from a crumbling storage facility in Pennsylvania.

Major fundraising efforts will begin with the nonprofit museum's Oktoberfest open house Oct. 10 and 11. In addition, naming rights are being offered on the passenger cars and the model train displays, and a donor with deep pockets could buy naming rights on the roundhouse.
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An Oktoberfest open house to raise $100,000 and up? Sounds like a good business plan.

It's not so much a matter of "wide drivers" so much as "wide tires" or "blind tires" (no flange). Quite a few 5-axle engines had blind tires on the #3 or #4 axles; PRR 2-10-0s were one large class like that.

Howard P.

Contrary to all the scuttlebutt about 643 being a tight engine, Glen successfully moved 643 around the ex-P&LE shop complex more than once. This required negotiating numerous No.6 turnouts. I'm sure most if not all were built with selfguarded frogs which is very common in shop and yard environments. He told me more than once that there was never an issue. No.6 turnouts have a degree of curvature in excess of 14 degrees.

Glen has always been very reluctant to partner with anyone. He bought 643 by walking into the office of the president of the Bessemer back in the early '80's and convinced him to sell her to him. They assisted with the move to Pittsburgh and the rest is history. She is relevant to the history of Western PA and really belongs more there than at Steamtown or elsewhere for that very reason. However, this is not a piece of machinery that can go just anywhere, so herein lies the "fly in the ointment." Glen was fortunate enough to find a wealthy individual who underwrote the mechanical restoration back in the '80's and the estate saw it through to completion after the man's passing. Glen commented that the project manager had a background in restoring antique cars so a lot of parts got "gold-plated", so to speak that didn't really need it! At one point in the mid-90's, we were preparing her for a steam up in McKee's Rocks and were getting the final gauges in place in the cab, then everything went quiet. There was sufficient track in place to let her stretch her legs a bit and attract some attention to her at the same time.

643 has essentially been stored indoors ever since she was retired by the Bessemer with the exceptioin of a relatively short period of time in which she sat out at the ex-P&LE Rocks complex after the car shops were razed and prior to her being moved to the current location. Word as of this morning is that a side wall of the timber structure started to buckle and the city pushed the owner to bring it down. It appears 643 was carefully spared any damage in the process but we'll probably know more in the next few days.

643 certainly deserves better and could easily be supported by the track structure on the old FM&P line (exB&O/Chessie/CSX) now owned by Fayette County. It was a heavy duty coal hauling line. Glen was getting close at one time to operating her in the Everson to Uniontown area but that fell through, like a few other opportunities. I believe AVR and Fayette County would be receptive to it as well, but there is always the curve ball called politics to contend with.

Rob Gardner
American Steam Railroad Preservation, Inc.

It would be nice to see her under steam running somewhere. It's too bad she did not make it to Steamtown. It's important to recognize that even though she may have been restored, just like CB&Q 5632 or GTW 5629, she has no guarantee of long term preservation under her present circumstances. I am sure her present owner has nothing but good intentions but we know what road is paved with good intentions.

I don't remember the main driver tire as being any wider than the others( such as on Russian decapods operating in the states on standard gauge) - it just looks wider because the flange is missing. The 643 was moved all over Pittsburg on much less than mainline tracks and we never had a problem with track damage or derailing. She is pretty limber for such a brute. JJJ always referred to 643 as the "King". It was the most powerful 2 cylinder locomotive ever built - if I recall the stats. We also bored the 31" x 31" cylinders during the rebuild - one of the guys sat inside them for a photo when we were finished. It's a fine engine in great shape. Just a 1472-Day inspection away from operating!

To Rob Gardner,

Is Glen still the sole and full owner of 643? If so, what are his intentions at this point? Sell? Keep? Move to better storage? Partner with an organization that has a place to run?

Like said already, the loco needs to be protected from weather and vandals and ultimately scrapping.

Hello all:

I was able to stop in and check on the 643 today. Here's what's up:

The large amount of snowfall we've had here in the past month or so caused part of the wooden building she was parked in to collapse. The area of the collapse was nowhere near the locomotive, and it was not damaged. Fearing further problems with the very old structure, the owner of the property decided to tear it down. On Monday the 643 was pushed out of the building with Glenn's Alco S1 (?), and the building was brought down with an excavator. After the structure was down they cleared the area around the tracks and pulled the 643 back onto its spot.

Today I was able to confirm there is no further damage. Now some pictures:

A few of the "King":




Glenn's Alco, in rough shape but operable. Wheels are close to, if not at condemning limits.


The A-tank, converted from an L&N "Big Emma" 2-8-4's tender:


And finally, a shot looking toward where the P&LE McKee's Rocks Shop Complex once stood.


Edit: to answer Dave's questions: Glenn is still the sole owner as far as I know, but his intentions are an unknown. He's backed out of at least two deals where he could sell the locomotive to groups that could run it, in addition to "promising" it to the Carnegie Science Center here in Pittsburgh. Attempts to reach him today concluded that his phone's off the hook. The man can probably best be described as "squirrely."

I have more pictures, if anyone's interested please PM me. Please also note that the locomotive is stored on private property and that I was there with permission.

Best,
Tim

Oh, you're no fun anymore.

Yours,
Mr. Sopwith

Thanks for the pics, Tim!

Thought I responded earlier but maybe it didn't "take"?
An excerpt from the second link at the News-Herald.com:
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Related plans include constructing a roundhouse, turntable, eight switches and about a mile of railroad track to create a 2-mile loop on which to run the engines for passenger excursions.
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It's great to see this engine being pursued by a group with intentions to restore her along with a place to run her, however, #643 seems a bit in excess for a 2 mile circle loop does it not? It's doable, and it would certainly be entertaining and a traffic generator for the Model Railroad Museum but it's almost like a tiger in a petting zoo.
I would think the engine would be better suited to a museum or a reliable group that could better utilize such a unique engine. I can picture a situation where an agreement is made to sell the engine to Steamtown (with hopes to run it) or perhaps a safer better for operation, to Jerry and his new endeavor also in Ohio but with a provision that in addition to cash, perhaps a smaller and better suited engine goes to the Railroad Museum (which they would have to pay for but at a much lower cost for a more suitable engine). This would be similar to what Steamtown did with Gettysburg regarding the swap for CN #3254. Similar, not identical but you get the jist.

/Mitch

Out of curiosity, where did the Big Emma auxiliary tender come from and when/where was it converted? I don't think it's the 1984 because that was still in Birmingham in 1994 (unconverted.) Or maybe I'm mistaken?

I believe it to be understood that the organization-Glenn that owns this locomotive and its associated equipment is short on funds. As was mentioned in earlier posts, the preservation world is afraid of loosing this locomotive to the scrapper’s torch. The building has been demolished around it. Bridges have been burned here and there between this locomotive and those who have worked on it. Seems awfully bleak?

This is not a rusted pile of scrap iron which can be spared for parts and scrapped out. It is also not a track-killer (go measure a loaded plastic hopper) and it should be capable of a comparable turning radius to 765. As mentioned, it is in excellent all-around shape and has been looked after. Also, take a gander at those photos closely, that locomotive was moved very recently. Someone is keeping it up; all hope can not be lost.

Bottom Line: There is little money floating around and an owner that is short on cash. (SHOCKER). Egos and relationships can be mended...everyone seems to have the same goal in mind. If you want this locomotive to have a fighting chance, I suggest that you do whatever is in your means to help. If you want to sit back and be an arm chair judge on this locomotive, go for it just the same. However, if you choose to do nothing, hold your silence when the demise of this locomotive falls contrary to your ideals.

It is also understood that multiple groups have attempted to save her from her current ownership and all have failed in one respect or another. Now, why is that? The locomotive got this far under the current leadership, why can’t it be flushed the rest of the way BEFORE talking about change of hands?

I am just a bystander reading the posts on this and several other message boards. Say what you like…however…take everything that is posted with a grain of salt, do some math, read what isn’t written and draw your own conclusion.

My wrenches are ready to turn.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Steve what's his name???? 260 something pals or another? Everyone with ideas around here and no one mentioned this? Must be a slow day.