The Reading did not have a line to Scranton, but one of the two units currently in Scranton did make a trip to Scranton during a whistle stop campaign many years ago. The significant historic connection to Steamtown is that all of the F units continue to tell the story of why Steam locomotives diappeared from the American railroad scene.

Mike Tillger

Look, I'm talking about one thing and you're talking about another. I personally like the Reading units, but what I am saying is that the Lackawanna units, although just a repaint, are what's exciting the local people who couldn't care less what the difference is between an F3 or FP-7 or Aunt Tillie's false teeth.

Museums cannot survive on "rivet counters" alone, they need support from Mom and Pop who are looking for a place to go on a Saturday. With all the bashing that Steamtown has received in recent years, I am glad to see that Kip Hagen is gaining traction and glad to see the Lackawanna units, which will attract REPEAT, PAYING LOCAL CUSTOMERS and help fund more projects AND show a good reason why millions in tax dollars should be shifted Steamtown's way.

An additional significance of the Lackawanna F3 project is that it shows what two well coordinated organizations with many very dedicated members can accomplish with a very creative project. ARHS and Tri-State are also providing a very useful demonstration of how to use the internet to solicit help for a project, encourage participation and donations, and keep the general public informed. There are a lot of good lessons here.

And as we enjoy and photograph these colorful units that have resulted from their dedicated labor, keep in mind that those beautiful and successful F-units were designed and built by some very talented and historically notable people. Martin Blomberg contributed much more than just the design for the trucks, and was in fact the lead designer of the carbody structure and also contributed to the subcomponent design process (along with Andrew Finigan, Frank Bruchtel, and others) that allowed these mass-production F-units to be built much more quickly than their FT predecessors. Richard M. Dilworth and Eugene Kettering contributed to the design of the excellent cooling hatch assembly and accessory rack structure that further enhanced locomotive final assembly. It is a shame that more museums do not recognize these people because their pioneering work still influences the design of locomotives today.

PC

All I'm saying is that to the average person in Scranton, there is no connection to the Reading units and no desire to ride one. (BTW, didn't the DL&W relegate the majority of their pacifics to freight service?)

You clearly don't understand the average visitor (I'm interesting in pleasing VISITORS and we draw visitors from all over Eastern PA) and the ALL the anthracite railroads.

One of the most frequently asked about locomotives is READING 2124.

I made no assertions about the use of Pacifics in freight service.

I'm not convinced that the local "moms and pops" care if it says Lackawanna, Reading, or NdeM on the carbody, so long as the windows open and the toilets in the station are clean.

I'm telling you what people in Scranton and the immediate area surrounding Scranton are saying. It's not an opinion, I'm stating a fact. You can listen or not, I really don't care. My interest here is to learn about the preservation of rail and traction equipment, the politics of public/museum interaction, and add to the discussion if I think I have something to offer.

If you're just here to get the last word on any given topic and stir arguments, then your real interest does not lie with the preservation, operation, and promotion of surviving rail and traction equipment in a modern setting with positive results, and I have no idea why you would choose to post on this board.

The Lackawanna units are doing something the Reading units are not, and that is garnering the interest of people in the Scranton are who you would probably not even consider to be rail fans. I wish to highlight the hard work that has obviously been a part of the project, the important partnership that looks to be key in getting this done, and the tremedous benefit and support that Steamtown stands to gain from the public in it's own host city. Important lessons for any organization to follow, this particular project seems to be a win-win for all involved. This is my point, this is all I am saying, and if you still don't get it I can't help you.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I just double-checked the websites of all the major newspapers and TV stations in Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, and found no reports on these "Lackawanna" locos.

Now, media reports are not always concurrent with "local buzz," I know. But I simply caution you to not mistake high enthusiasm among a select circle for a universal assessment or enthusiasm.

I run into folks who attend a major Japanese animation convention here in my town, who act/think like their gathering of 20,000 people over three days is "the biggest thing in Baltimore" every year--blissfully clueless of the tens of thousands that go to each Orioles baseball game (well, used to), the 75K who attend most football games, or--this year--a major international soccer match the same weekend as their anime convention.

And where was this enthusiasm when one of the REAL authentic vintage Lackawanna diesels--EMC 426--returned to town and got repainted?

I feel sorry that I ever looked at that 1923 Reading map. I was trying to be a good participant. I don't believe in being dramatic.

Michael Schur

You know what, forget it. I will just deal with DMs from here on out.

I'm telling you what people in Scranton and the immediate area surrounding Scranton are saying. It's not an opinion, I'm stating a fact. You can listen or not, I really don't care. My interest here is to learn about the preservation of rail and traction equipment, the politics of public/museum interaction, and add to the discussion if I think I have something to offer.


I'm not sure why, in this day of omnipresent instantaneous communication you think that you have some special insight into what "people in Scranton and the immediate area" are saying, but I was born and bred there, still visit family on a regular basis and have close to 3000 volunteer hours over 15 years. I've talked to literally thousands of visitors, always trying to find out what brings them in. I HAVE NEVER heard "I want more Lackawanna, but no Reading"

As an aside unless you are directly quoting individual people, any summarization or inference about groups, derived from your sample is by definition an opinion.

I don't care what you say, except that it was dismissive and insulting to the nice folks helping us out this year with the FP-7's.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry...

In the last 24 hours the RDG F's have made a test run to Moscow, we've moved dozens of freight cars (and a PRR Caboose) at the DL, 3254 has been running shuttle trips, the Tri State Chapter started final painting of their F3 and I've just spent a day with the Flagg 75.

All the while this argument continued online....

Dave

Dave,

I'd be laughing. I've followed this thread from the beginning, and I'm still not certain who is arguing, and over what.................

Great things are happening in Scranton this week. If you're not there helping, shut up about the efforts and decisions of those who are. If you're there as an attendee, enjoy ands salute the efforts of those who put it together. If, like me you can't make it for one reason or the other, look forward to the reports and observations from all the lucky ones...................

It's not in the cards for me to make another trip from Utah to Scranton PA this June, but all of the action there sure makes me want to! I'd love to see the Reading AND the "DL&W" F-units.

Paint is being applied to F3 no. 663, as Central RR of New Jersey 57 is becoming DL&W 663.

A slightly different approach is being made to this paint job from no. 664. For the immediate future, she will be a "gray ghost". Yellow and maroon stripes will be applied after the NRHS convention, to match 664 by RailFest on Labor Day weekend.

Here is her face. The only yellow for now will be the tape around the nose herald.

The 70th convention of the NRHS begins Monday, June 21. This is only one of the many locomotives that will play a role in the event.

I'd like to point out that I get your witty username, which is the Lionel model number for a DL&W Northern from the LTI era. That said... I'm not sure by what means you have your finger on the proverbial pulse of the greater Wilkes Barre-Scranton area, but I think its safe to say that people in Scranton who would not otherwise consider being railfans are NOT going to be swayed by equipment that says "Lackawanna" on the side of it. Steamtown U.S.A. had plenty of faux-Lackawanna hardware before the NHS days... are you implying that the local residents have completely lost interest because none of the trains say "Lackawanna" on them? Are you serious? (FWIW I hail from nearby Schuylkill County and I'm fairly familiar with the type of people who call "the Valley" home.)

Let me make it clear that it is not my intent to disparage the hard work on these F-units.. I think the work being done is fantastic, and I think it's *nice* to have Lackawanna units operating out of Scranton, but I can't say they're going to drive up attendance by the general public. I few die-hard railfans might make an extra trip to see them, but the unwashed masses... no way. The only way you're going to get non-railfans to come out to see a specially painted diesel in this country is if it's black and silver and has a big #3 on the side of it. Common folk don't feel any connection with fallen flags.