Luther & the RPYN list participants,

Thank you Luther for your additional comments which echo the information I originally posted and only edited out of respect for a friend. It was not meant to disparage, but to report on the reality of what was taking place at our museum and relate it to Preston’s topic at hand. These are real decisions that have been made; some made by our museum’s Board in isolation. I hope those who made them will stand behind them. Thank you again Luther for standing up, and I apologize for offending anyone. I certainly respect the contributions of all of our volunteers; not just the twelve members of our board. I have too much invested in the R&GVRRM to see it fail.

With that said, I will say I am not the new guy on the block. I am 39 years of age and have 21 years of active service with the R&GVRRM. I could list my accomplishments with the group, but that would serve no purpose here. I know what I have done and remain proud of it. I also know I have made some mistakes and are not proud of those. All I can hope is that others can learn from what I did wrong and not repeat it especially the younger leaders we are lucky enough to have, Luther included. The wonderful news is that I am one of the “old guys” at the R&GVRRM.

I remain passionate about preservation, but also realize not everything can be saved. I realize tough decisions need to be made, but it would nice if the reasons behind those decisions were well communicated and done with respect for everyone. I would also like to say that I have not stood in the way of the museum carrying out its recent cleanup. I have not stood in front of the trucks, disrupted or even attended the board meetings, or hired a lawyer. I have expressed an occasional opinion and did ask for consideration for the preservation of a small piece of the larger construction equipment collection, a portion of which was honored. Unlike others, I do have an interest in historic construction equipment as I have interest in railroad equipment and interpreting railroad history. There is a reason why I have created and installed every major railroad exhibit currently at the R&GVRRM.

This is also why I responded in the first place since the R&GVRRM has items which either it or another group may be able to use to do or add to interpreting a locomotive servicing facility. If timing did not allow for the offering of a good portion of the construction equipment to other groups then maybe there is a better chance here. It looks like one of the three pieces may already be destined for preservation, but two remain.

Thanks for the continued discussion and again please accept my apology.

Regards,
Chris

To answer that, no we don't want to place any worthwhile equipment in an unheated building with a dirt floor. Your timing with this comment could not be more perfect. Mr. Hauf recently asked for more direction and a committee appointed to investigate what we would like to see in the next year happen as far as the restoration building floor building is concerned. The news is very positive and I am sure Mr. Hauf will be quite pleased with the results.



In fact, several parts have been produced at other shops in the time you've been absent Kevin. Some of our volunteers who have access to equipment have been producing parts for various projects including the restoration of one of our GE 45 Tonners. The newsletter does not cover every single thing that occurs at the museum. Project summaries as published are supplied by those who work on the projects. Sometimes details are left out in their submissions.

Additionally I am disgusted by your comments towards the volunteers we do have who do continue to do great work. You've ostracized yourself due to some conflicts you had with one or two individuals who's intentions were actually in good faith and somehow you've become this person who is embittered about something that was not meant as a disrespect to you, your person, or the projects you have worked on. I used to look up to you Kevin. I really did. I hoped to learn more from you but your behavior and attitude over the last few years has been appalling. It did not need to be personal but to say that Joe Nugent, our Motive Power Superintendent, our Machine Shop Foreman, a friend of yours, a man with a degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology with extensive machine shop training both on and off the job training, who has apprenticed under several engineers who worked for General Electric in different capacities, who now works as a fixture designer and producer, machines his own parts both on and off the job (for them Museum and other projects) is inadequate is simply disrespectful not only to Joe who also admired you and your work but others including Ron A. and Mike W.

You may not have said it directly but I see the hidden meaning in your jabs. These aforementioned individuals, your own friends, who care and respect you are the people who currently work as our machinists at the Museum and they do mighty fine work.



At this time, we've already acquired a sheet metal brake and that is just the beginning. At the end of it all we plan to replace our current lathe with perhaps a newer model with digital readouts, we're also seeking a drill press and band-saw. This will be installed once the concrete floor is poured. We're hoping to have the floor work done next spring. That is all I can say for now until the committee in charge of this project meets and returns with a proposal with a more strict timeline and budget requests to the board.


EDIT: One additional piece I forgot to mention above is that we are looking for a mill as well.

We are also replacing the equipment for the following reasons:

1) Safety, we are attempting to reach the point where none of this equipment has exposed belts. We're looking for equipment with modern safety appliances. In other words, we're looking out for our members who do understand and use this equipment. Some of whom are your very own friends.

2) Ease of maintenance and repair (especially parts availability)

3) Enhanced accuracy and precision

4) Ease of use to encourage proper training such that more of our capable members may learn the art and science of machining. As I said above, the plan is to replace the machines with more modern equivalents (1960s and later) on our new concrete floor. The new environment for this equipment will be virtually dustfree and level with appropriate power considerations. At the moment, everything is running on some combination of phase converters and transformers. We're doing the best we can with what we've got and are looking to improve everyday.

Lastly, the floor is being funded by prior, current, and hopefully soon to come donations. I know I personally plan on dropping as much money as I can muster together into this project.

I agree with Dave. Please prepare a list of any equipment that is to be disposed of. You may have stuff that other groups wish they had.

I can repost a list of surplus machine tools to the Practical Machinist Forum. We're always saving old worn out American iron.

Dave and "Stationary Steam"

I will as soon as I have the appropriate model numbers and relevant details, good photos, etc. Also please understand that this will be over the next several months into the next year.

Please read my last post on the subject of the machine shop and its future with/at the Museum. We're in this for the long haul.

Your initial comments, really hit close to home for several of us, who have devote many hours along side with you since we stumbled upon the place. Something had to be said. Again, we're all in this together. Your concerns were brought to the boards attention this evening as well. We're not considering failure as an option. We're trying to make this place succeed, everyday that we are out there.



For those that do not know, I'm 23 years of age, the most recent six of which have been spent involved with the museum.

To Chris' benefit, he has done a lot in his 21 years of service and he should be proud of everything he has accomplished. Chris, you cannot dwell on past failures. We must all learn from them and move onwards and upwards.



I'm with you on many of these points and I will personally bring your concerns up to the rest of the Board at our next opportunity in two weeks.



The good news is we are still working towards resolving the land issue. The pieces that remain at this time remain for a reason. I do believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Kevin and others - Please feel free to contact me offline if you have any further questions or concerns. I think Luther summed up everything nicely. I feel bad that our group has hijacked this poor, unsuspecting thread.

The machine tools that we are looking to replace would look awesome in an antique machine shop display. I will be sure to post more information in the classifieds section on rypn. You can see the lathe on page 6 in our newsletter:

http://rochnrhs.org/media/semaphore/RCN ... 201007.pdf

She's a man eater. Nothing I can't handle, but you really need to watch who is working around you. And yeah, that's me at the lathe. I'm another young guy at 26. :)

Finally, a quick word on our machine shop plan. As Luther alluded to, we've received a good chunk of funding for the installation of a concrete floor in our restoration building. Work has begun to move items in preparation for the concrete work. All of our machine tools will need to be disconnected and moved to another location. We thought this would be a good opportunity to upgrade some of this equipment. We aren't looking for anything fancy: a decent lathe and mill with digital readouts would be ideal. (1960's vintage or newer) These machine tools would be installed after the new floor is in place. We already have a very nice metal cutting band saw and air powered sheet metal brake.

Thank you,

Joe

That's a beautiful and useful lathe - for steam tolerances used by a decent weekend machinist, tighter tolerances used by a pro. I'm sure somebody responsible will be interested when you offer it.

Digital readouts? Never learned to read them. Analog is the real world, digital a second-generation numerical representation of it. I suppose some people find them useful, those who can't read a windup watch for example.....and speaking of skills we need to prevent from disappearing, wouldn't manual machining be among them?

There will be a lot of use for these tools in other museums keeping those skills alive.

dave

Milling with the use of digital readouts (DRO) is still manual milling, but instead of reading a dial you are reading digits on a panel. I find DRO's to be a time saver, especially if the machine is old, worn and has a lot of backlash. It's also nice to be able to quickly set zeros and such. Like I said, I'm a young guy... this is what I grew up with. All of the shops I've ever used has had DRO equipped machines. (About a half dozen shops to date.) It's not exactly new technology... I've seen some ancient DRO displays!

But yeah, reading the dials on a lathe or mill is becoming a lost art. Most schools will train students with DRO equipped machines, if they aren't already training students with state-of-the-art CNC equipment. I can program and use a CNC mill too, but our museum isn't getting one anytime soon.

Such is progress, I suppose. But again, we aren't trying to replicate a turn of the century steam locomotive machine shop. We regularly operate diesel locomotives and our shop is housed in a modern steel building. In general, we would be more comfortable with some "modern" post war machines.

Joe

Most of the machines I learned were post war, but of course that was our Civil War......and fit into the Spanish American War era. If I could see small things better I could still use a Vernier, but have adapted to the modern dial caliper for now, so I'm not entirely in the dinosaur era.

I've got a plan for a reconstruction of a belt driven sawmill / machine shop in the back of my mind and it seems that there's a chance the major parts might fall available right soon now....but I'm not sure if it could be made to happen financially and politically. Working on it......

dave

Between college and getting into an engineering office, I spent several years machining in a job shop. We had everything from brand new CNC equipment to a converted belt drive radial drill press...

I definitely liked the mills which had been equipped with DRO's. While still requiring skill, they sure help reduce the chance of a dumb math mistake or not compensating for backlash reuining a customer's expensive machinery! Being able to set a zero wherever it's needed, and knowing where the machine is cutting, regardless of backlash, is very comforting.

On non- DRO or CNC machines, I loved to use a dial indicator as insurance when it came to finishing cuts!

Where I am now, we have a big shop full of Haas CNC lathes and mills, several five axis, and the toolmakers prefer to work directly from my 3D math data... several of the apprentices have been forced to learn "the old ways" on the few old machines that remain.

Fun stuff!

:-)

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

Getting back to the original subject, I'm discussing acquisition of a shop full of deaccessioned belt driven machines, 1880 to 1923, from another museum. It's far too early to say if we'll succeed.

Yes, if we don't go ahead with the deal and they're still available, I'll post the details here. The present owner cares very much for them but they don't fit their present mandate.

Our vision is that these old beasts will be temporarily be used for "real machining", and will eventually form the core of a replicated machine shop attached to our planned roundhouse. Then, they will see some "real machining" use, some demonstration machining of simpler stuff, and will be interpreted as the antiques they are.

Steve Hunter
RMEO