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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Posts: 371
Cops: Mini Train Driver in Fatal Crash Admits to Going Too Fast:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/22/cops-mini-train-driver-fatal-crash-admits-going-fast/

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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm
Posts: 32
This link provides the inspection and incident reports:


http://www.foxcarolina.com/news/27277335/detail.html


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:22 pm
Posts: 219
A more complete update.

http://journalstar.com/news/national/ar ... 2d0c4.html


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:12 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Tidewater, VA
This doesn't mean Matt was speeding by choice, there is a chance that something failed on the ride and caused it to accelerate uncontrollably. The media is known too well for misinterpreting evidence.

All parties involved are in my prayers. With many near misses myself on much larger equipment, I know the feeling to well.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm
Posts: 32
[quote="Jay611"]This doesn't mean Matt was speeding by choice, there is a chance that something failed on the ride and caused it to accelerate uncontrollably. The media is known too well for misinterpreting evidence.[/quote]

This wasn't a media interpretation, it was a law enforcement report that quoted the engineer.

I have nothing but sympathy for all involved, but from what is known now, this accident was preventable.


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Incident Report.pdf [155.79 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:12 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Tidewater, VA
Again, it says "I knew I was going too fast" but it doesn't state why. As i listed above, mechanical failure is still a probable cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1883
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I would not be willing to believe a raw police report on it's face. Just remember what happened to the unfortunate security guard at Olympic Park in Atlanta when it was bombed during the '96 Olympics. He spent a year being blamed for it and had his life ruined - and probably cut short - by the authorities, politicians and the media rushing to judgement. There is a reason we have a process of inquiry, so hopefully all of the facts come out. Matt is entitled to the benefit of every doubt here.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12169
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
There is currently an Associated Press story being circulated through the news feeds citing Virginia Conrad, Matt's mother, as well as a police officer who rode with Matt Conrad to the hospital. In it, Matt Conrad is described as being still "distraught" and "in shock" over the incident.

There also WAS, on YouTube, at least one video of a ride on the train in question, which will no doubt add fuel to the controversy for at least two reasons, if they're not taken down rather quickly. They show nothing incriminating in and of themselves, but.......

I'm not posting links to these items. Neither really does anyone any good here, and I've yet to find an unedited version of the AP feed that I can link to legally.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:59 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
I don't know if it is proper or not to actually link the incident report here. But the language of the report says that "Mr. Conrad stated that he knew better than to drive the train that fast."

He went on to describe how he would go slow on the first lap, faster on the second lap, and still faster on the third lap. The use of the word "would" makes it sound like this was a procedure that was done more than just the one time when the derailment occurred.

This language seems to rule out a mechancial failure causing the train to go too fast. It suggests that the high speed was an experiment to see if it could be done successfully without causing a problem. It sounds as though the decsion to go that fast was at least somewhat against the engineer's better judgement, and that he was uncertain of the outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3013
Ron Travis wrote:
I don't know if it is proper or not to actually link the incident report here...


The incident report is included as an attachment in one of the replies posted by another member.


Last edited by Bobharbison on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
There is also the natural reaction to blame one's self when something terrible happens- whether or not the individual is really to blame. When written down out of context, it can be blown all out of proportion.

Let's wait until the investigation is done, and hope for the best for Matt, the injured passengers, and the families and friends affected by this sad derailment.

And, in the meantime, let's all focus even more on our own safety practices.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:10 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Adrian, Oregon
sbhunterca wrote:
There is also the natural reaction to blame one's self when something terrible happens- whether or not the individual is really to blame. When written down out of context, it can be blown all out of proportion.

This is absolutely, unfortunately true. Moreover, law officers will sometimes try to "lead" people into making this kind of statement. Bottom line? do not ever under any circumstances admit fault to a law enforcement officer. The policeman is not your friend, at least in this case.

This was brought home, in a most unpleasant way, to my late father-in-law a few years ago. He was involved in a traffic accident wherin a motorcyclist died. My FIL was in no way negligent, he pulled out of a blind intersection, the rider broadsided him. The motorcyclist was speeding, and was not wearing a helmet as the law required. Nevertheless, my FIL, distraught, said something to the cop at the scene that was construed as admission of fault. The cyclist's family sued for an amount far exceeding the liability insurance, my FIL lost his life savings, his retirement and his house. He died not long afterward, and I am convinced the stress of the suit and loss of his estate was a contributing factor in his death.

Never admit fault, even if it was your fault. Let the courts and the lawyers work it out.
J


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1096
Here is the link to an article that provides an important update on the accident investigation:

WYFF4.com Article: Police: Media Jumped To Premature Conclusions


The full article included a quote of a release from the Spartanburg [South Carolina] Public Safety department:
Quote:
Spartanburg Public Safety Capt. Art Littlejohn said in a release on Tuesday: "As an oversight, one media outlet received the attached information, which is part of our on-going investigation; the supplemental reports … The statement speaks for itself. We can not analyze the entire incident based on a single uttered statement. At this point we have not reached a conclusion as to the technical or mechanical findings of the investigation. The statement, while important to the investigation, does not provide conclusive evidence of the actual speed or the functionality of the train or tracks."

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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:42 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
Who has the responsibility of maintaining the track of this railroad?


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 Post subject: Re: Cleveland Park train derails; one killed, at least 20 in
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Hickory, NC
Here is a press conference with Matt Conrad:

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/mar/22/1 ... r-1601189/

He's a good guy. Keep him and the families in your thoughts and prayers.

Matt Bumgarner
Alexander Chapter-NRHS


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