Okay, Brother Pincus. Now what if we're talking about the odd car that drew the proverbial "short straw" and has to spend the season or year out on the siding up the line, or on the far track of the "yard limit," because, you know, you just don't happen to have that much fence? You know, the car/loco the Class One donated and delivered, and you're still fundraising, or it's waiting its turn in the paint booth, or you're still debating whether to restore it or use it for parts?

Those, after all, are the "eye candy" of this breed of "artist," not the nicely restored U25B or RDC or Pullman car........

If only Dai Woodhams (of Barry Scrapyard in Wales), the Kovalchicks, or the owner of Virginia Iron & Metal could have found a way to profit from these shutterbugs.....

ADM,

If it's outside the fence, it's fair game for: graffitti, vandals, arsonists, metal thieves and other assorted characters. Maybe even some art photographers. I seem to recall taking some pictures like that at places like Mount Union, Pa. years and years ago (no fence though).

I'm referring to stuff behind a fence, that is obviously "off-limits". Yes, the saying is that "fences only keep honest people out". So do locks on doors; I'd guess that most of these urban explorers would not think of breaking a door lock and entering someone's house, however "interesting" it might be.

If you cut your way in, if you go over the top or squeeze underneath, if you kick down a door or boarded up window, if you ignore the "No Trespassing" signs on the FENCE, you're a trespassing criminal, not an "artist".

Howard P.

Seriously? That's whatcha get for not painting it and not taking care of it! LOL! Why should you be entitled to profit from your notable lack of care for a historic artifact?

Let's re-emphasize: This is stuff either shoved away in the back, or still "off-site" somewhere. You've made an attempt to keep it out of the public eye, and they STILL go back and find it and shoot it.

It sounds like there are two choices here:

1) when you get a piece in free for possible restoration or for parts, start cutting it up as soon as it arrives lest it clutter your place, and suffer the anguished cries of people that accuse you of "destroying historic pieces,"

2) Never, ever accept another potential artifact unless it comes fully restored already, with an endowment to keep it that way.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I start to see now why some museum directors/administrators/presidents burn out.......

HP,

I am not condoning trespassing, unrequested paint jobs or unexpected retrieval of metals...

I guess I bristle at the notion that all Urban Explorers are somehow next of kin to criminal elements. Is there crossover? I am sure, just as there are "railfans" who steal horns and other jewelry.

If you read Weird NJ magazine, you'll find an ongoing theme about legit urbanex vs. stuff that will get you arrested. The code of honor, if you will, put forth by the editors is similar to the old railfan adage of take only pictures, leave only footprints. Graffiti and theft is NOT part of responsible urban exploring. WNJ stresses getting permission to be "on the property."

ADM's pot stirrng is a black and white issue to me. If a crime has been commited, prosecute it. If not, accept the worts and embrace a (relatively) free society.

Rob

Good heavens. Pictures of rusted out locomotives! There ought to be a law against it. What about the children?

Today's "Mr. Boffo" comic strip apparently is based on the same mentality as those pursued by the aforementioned "artists" and their customers:

http://images.chron.com/apps/comics/ima ... .949.g.gif

(will open a comic strip hosted at the Houston Chronicle website)

(Sigh). If it's going to be chopped up into little itty bitty bits anyway-where and what is this object. No doubt it's been discussed here before, but my powers of deduction fail me at this point.

BTW, in the same vein--you can still bid on a complete, non running 25 ton Industrial Brownhoist locomotive crane with clamshell bucket in Nevada City Montana. Go here to put in your bid through this Friday! http://montanaheritagecommission.mt.gov/propertysale.mcpx

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

My guess is the famous "Washington Station GG-1" is what is being hinted at. By rights, it should be cosmetically repaired and displayed as living history, on the same track upon where it made its famous entrance.

[quote="Richard Glueck"]By rights, it should be cosmetically repaired and displayed as living history, on the same track upon where it made its famous entrance.[/quote]

And "by rights," nothing should ever have been scrapped, and every roundhouse should still be standing and filled with the appropriate steam locomotives, "as living history" (whatever that means). Who pays for all this?

Doesn't the fact that the "Washington Station GG1" is in its present cirsumstances suggest that the market (so to speak) has determined that it's just not that important? We have several Gs nicely preserved in their home state, another apparently en route (slowly) to a good home at the Henry Ford Museum, another at a location where it may one day be made to limp along along under trolley wire, and the list goes on. Notwithstanding the fact that the chances of Amtrak being willing to tolerate the story of a spectacular train wreck being perpetuated in its midst are probably nil, maybe we need to be asking ourselves precisely why this particular locomotive is all that important anyway. It has "railfan significance," but beyond that, so what?

Let's put the exercise in practical terms. You're making your pitch to a potential funding source; it wants to know why another GG1 needs to be saved, and in particular this one. Candidly, I'm hard-pressed to think of a reason. One could argue that "by rights," in a world of limited resources such decisions should be made in the context of the relative needs of all other derelict locomotives, perhaps as part of a national preservation agenda as proposed in another thread. Within such a rational decision-making model, I'm even more hard-pressed to think of a reason to keep this one.

Pitch: This locomotive lost its brakes while running in the station. The crew notified the station authorities who cleared the platform. The locomotive rammed the platform and consequently fell to the next lower level. The capitol was in the throws of President Eisenhower's inauguration, and the Pennsylvania Railroad covered the wreckage for the event. The locomotive, being valuable, was salvaged by cutting it into pieces and reassembling it. It saw many years of further use, safely handling passengers. It happened right here, on this very spot, and has by some miracle, been preserved as an "eye witness" to a remarkable, historical event, connected with the function of this capitol city. Let us not destroy the memory of this significant event in the history of the Presidency, the transportation artery that fed its residents, and the company that is no more, but once was a major player in the growth and defense of the nation.

That would be my pitch, so to speak.

[quote="Richard Glueck"]
That would be my pitch, so to speak.[/quote]

Which has already gotten this particular derelict locomotive precisely nowhere.

George, are you looking for someone to blame?
If the locomotive does get cut up (again), I believe that within a few years, it will be regarded as a major failure in significant railroad artifact preservation. Remember, where it is today, there is no public call to explain what it is and what the significance of tht role is.

Dick, George -

I can see the reasoning behind both arguments. Although I tend to agree that the "Washington Station GG-1" should be preserved. And preferably somewhere within the confines of the station itself on a short section of display track. What I don't understand I guess, is why there seems to be some danger of it being cut up and destroyed. Perhaps some info?

Les

If ADM's great mystery is #4876, I think it is fair to say I have slides of her during her last months of service that might be mistaken for pictures of an abandoned locomotive.

None of the NJDOT GG-1's ended up immediately cared for in preservation, and now three decades later I don't believe any of them have been restored and/or stored inside.

It would be nice, while there are still some left, to see one plinthed in glass along the NEC. Imagine one cosmeically restored, lit for night viewing among the other trackside artwork in Hamilton, NJ.

Would you let a few survivors go in exchange for one or two more properly housed and displayed?