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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:58 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:39 am
Posts: 54
Location: California desert
o anderson wrote:
Quote:
Other existing 3' gauge tourist railroads should at least consider the cars, given the example that Whitehorse has provided. One interesting possibility is Bishop, CA, where there was a previous effort to lay 3' gauge track over a previously graded, but never built, trolley line. I think that project got stuck in execution and never used all the ISTEA funds that were allocated. Anyway, it would be an interesting use of a Lisbon trolley car, if the Laws Museum were vital enough to go forward with it.


The project to build a tourist RR line from Bishop to the Laws Railroad Museum is dead, at least using TEA grant funding. At the conclusion of the EIR studies it was determined that there was over a $1 million in mitigation costs, ROW construction costs would be in the $100-$150/foot range, Los Angeles Dept of Water & Power filed a letter opposing crossing the Owens River and Williams Creek, and only the cost of grading between the Owens River and Williams Creek was eligible for TEA grant funding. This was an Inyo County project and the Museum's input was limited to only the track on its grounds. Inyo County dropped the project and further consideration of a tourist RR.

An interesting thing about TEA Grant funding, the recipient does not receive any money up front. You spend your money, submit the paid receipts, and wait, and wait, and wait for re-reimbursement.

Max Cox
Bishop, CA


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
ISTEA sounds like a billionaire's game to me.

Every successful railroad museum I know of -- was built with the sweat equity of volunteers, bootstrapping with early passenger fares, hustling for every dollar, and doing absolutely everything dirt, dirt cheap. The words "professional services" just don't exist in that type of organization.

I don't know any successful railroad museum that was built on cubic money. All the ones that were, are - BIG SURPRISE - are in critical financial crisis because they ousted the volunteers built an internal "little empire" that is addicted to money. I don't call that "successful". When the museum can't afford both its mission purpose and the little empire too, the empire murders the mission as an act of self (empire) preservation. This is the nature of power.

Even as the organization spins toward the hard deck, paid staff will insist that ONLY THEY are competent to run the organization (when the opposite is plainly true), and they will literally crash the organization rather than relinquish control. In fact, the conduct of paid staff is, in all meaningful ways, identical to the behavior of the Flight 93 terrorists.


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:26 pm
Posts: 50
SFTM may be an exception to Robert's comments above. It got one of the first museum ISTEA grants in 1994, and we are still reaping that investment today. It also took sweat equity, membership dues and support, early fares and doing everything else dirt cheap. But we wouldn't have an operating car or an operating museum w/o the ISTEA grant.

_________________
Sam Bartlett, President
Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum
Shelburne Falls, Massachusetts, USA


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2820
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The Como-Harriet streetcar in Minneapolis was completely relaid using ISTEA funds, what, ten years ago?

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2461
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
National Capital Trolley Museum received ISTEA funding for two successful projects: restoration of JTCo 352, and construction of our new campus.
Quote:

I don't know any successful railroad museum that was built on cubic money.


Major capital projects involving ITEA and other big bucks at National Capital, Orange Empire, Western Railway and Pennsylvania Trolley Museum have successfully expanded mission and conservation of collections at these sites.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:22 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Apple Valley, Minnesota
softwerkslex wrote:
The Como-Harriet streetcar in Minneapolis was completely relaid using ISTEA funds, what, ten years ago?


Correct. TEA-21 (successor to ISTEA) grant application process started in 1999 or 2000, Grant approved in 2003 and work was done in 2005.

But there's more about our use of federal funds. In the 1990s, two carbarn expansion projects at our Como-Harriet Streetcar Line were done using ISTEA funds. In the mid-1990s, our entire Excelsior Streetcar Line, which includes a nice storage and maintenance shop building was built with ISTEA funds.

_________________
Jim Vaitkunas
Minnesota Streetcar Museum
www.trolleyride.org


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 648
wesp wrote:
Major capital projects involving ITEA and other big bucks at National Capital, Orange Empire, Western Railway and Pennsylvania Trolley Museum have successfully expanded mission and conservation of collections at these sites.

Wesley

At WRM, the government grant used to help build the Loring Jensen Memorial Car House was not a federal ISTEA grant. It was a grant by the State of California using proceeds from a cultural heritage bond issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Single Truck Trolley available in California
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:22 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:59 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Woodstock, CT
On the topic of grants, ISTEA, etc. I believe that the British have a system worth replicating: The National Lottery. They have a lottery just for supporting and preserving their historical and cultural assets. Protecting their history for the future.

Just my 2 cents.

Ted.


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