If press releases were published as given to the editors we would not need to be having this posting and questioning.

At no point did we give Railfan and Railroad magazine the information that it was going to be stored in at the Hocking Valley. As our press release states it will be located in Ohio which means a location suitable for the locmotive and the American Steam Railroad to do the rebuild is in progress and the Hocking is not on this list for the locomotive to stored at there site.

We have contacted and Railfan and Railroad to correct there release to the one given in first post above. We at no point have an agreement with the Hocking nor will be bringing the locomotive to there facilty in the near future for rebuild.

Applozies for getting everyone overly excited about the situation but when errors and liberties are taken in changing our press releases can cause issues as you see above.

Railfan has made the corrections as of today to the proper press release.


Frisco Mikado Set For Restoration in Ohio
January 16th, 2012

The American Steam Railroad Preservation Association has completed the purchase of St. Louis-San Francisco (Frisco) Mikado No. 1352. Built by Alco in 1912 as a 2-8-0 and rebuilt into a Mikado by the railroad in 1944, No. 1352 was retired in 1956 and put on display at Swope Park in Kansas City, Mo. The locomotive suffered from vandalism and flood damage while on display and was sold to the Smoky Hill Railway and Historical Society for restoration. Smoky Hill then sold it to an individual in Taylorville, Ill., from whom ASR purchased the locomotive. This spring, the organization hopes to move No. 1352 to a restoration site in Ohio. While the group raises money for the move, it will begin to restore smaller components such as the power reverse, turbogenerator, and air pumps.

-- Railfan & Railroad; photo courtesy of American Steam Railroad Preservation Association

Best Regards,

Steven M Harvey
President
American Steam Railroad

Steven and others involved in the 1352 project:

While I haven't seen the original press release, I am more than willing to give you the benefit of a doubt on this. However, the HVSR rumors are not that far-fetched. While you didn't state that the 1352 would be housed at HVSR, in your previous postings on RYPN, you guys did talk about the HVSR quite a lot, and then even mentioned running the 1352 on the HVSR. Stating that the locomotive would be stored at HVSR isn't a stretch and didn't quite "come out of nowhere." I find it hard to believe that both Railfan & Railroad and possibly Trains misconstrued the press release, then again, I haven't seen the original press release. Still, given the context, quoted below (with emphasis added) it is easy to see where the HVSR came from.








With this in mid, my question to the ASR group is this: Have you made an agreement to run the 1352 on the HVSR, and if not, why have officers of the organization stated as such, without a formal agreement? If not, despite making affirmations that the 1352 will be running on the HVSR, it appears that your organization may have taken some liberties as well.

David and all,

I believe Steve provided the original press release as sent out to the various railroad press outlets in the post immediately prior to your response.

Thanks for your insight and troubleshooting. Hindsight is 20/20, and it certainly looks like we jumped the gun a little bit in our comments that you highlighted in your previous post. We were only trying to give credit where credit is due to HVSR for their willingness to work with us over the past few years. The truth is, we have no agreements in place for a place to restore or operate the 1352 at this time. We ask for your patience and support as we proceed this winter and spring in working out the details for the next move. We are indeed planning to run a few special trains at HVSR and we are indeed greatful to them for allowing us to work with them in 2012.

If anyone has any ideas where we might look to establish a home base in central Ohio, we're still looking at all options. We would prefer a home on a shortline/regional railroad or in a larger rail-served industrial facility or industrial park over a Class I connection for a number of reasons. With the railroad industry stronger than ever, it's harder and harder to find unused spurs that still have connections to the serving railroad.

Please let us know if you have any questions. We will do our best to answer your questions.

Sincerely,


Rob Gardner
ASR Chief Engineer

Congratulations on completing your purchase!

It doesn't matter where you move, overhaul, store, or operate a steam locomotive these days. You are certain to have individuals that have two cents to put down on every comment, post, event, cosmetic change, etc. This board is an amazing tool for those who enjoy following the history of steam locomotives. It is a shame that many of the very people that could appreciate a steam locomotive being purchased, preserved, or operated behave without manners, forethought, or perspective.

I am reminded of a post a saw on here when the Tennessee Valley Railroad & Museum finished Southern 630's overhaul. Many people commented on the successful operation of this artifact...and then about half way thru the posts...someone comments that they wish all of the participants/onlookers would have been out of his way so he could shoot a "proper" picture. The individual wrote a few other choice ideas reflecting that everyone ENJOYING the engine...was ruining his pictures. Buy a ticket and support your hobby...quit your griping!

So with that said, we should all buy hats that say Frisco 1352...and support another fledgling group in their endeavors. If it wasn't for groups of people with a dream...MILW 261, NP 765, SR 4501, NW 611...well you get the picture. None of these engines would have been restored for our pleasure if someone didn't have a dream.

Regarding the posting above: for every 611, 261, 765, 4449 project, there has been at least one LIRR 39, LIRR 35, PRR 1361, GTW 6325 (in Battle Creek) just to name a few where a similar group with a "dream" but with flimsy plans and execution wound up 10 or 20 years later with an engine in a thousand pieces plus a lot of heartache and wasted money. So, forgive us older heads if we are skeptical of a group such as ASR and ask a lot of questions.

As I have stated on this forum before, groups such as this benefit from more questioning, not less, and from responding to said questioning. Too often the alternative is the 1361, or the 39.

Chris.

I certainly agree with you that there have been organizations that were unable to execute restoration projects to completion. However, I don't feel like the rail fan community has the right to question the direction, how, when, where, why, or especially the integrity of any organization. If everyone in the rail fan community put their money and physical efforts where their mouths are we would have all kinds of steam/historical equipment in operation.

I have been a paid employee at two organizations in two different parts of the US...and one thing that always amazed me...was how the decision makers couldn't turn a wrench...but they loved giving direction from behind their desks. It can be difficult to steer a restoration when you really don't understand the hardware you are working on.

Sometimes leaders make lousy mechanics and mechanics make lousy leaders. Successful organizations understand how to marry leaders and mechanics. Railroad preservation groups that have thrived did so because they had the right mix of members, not by luck.

Let's all wait and see what happens before rendering a judgement. For every 1361 & 39 that have experienced problems in their restorations, many, many more have been completed in the last 20 years. If you count every restoration completed across the US in the last 20 years they will outnumber the failures.

To me the most interesting thing is that ASR's website and press releases seem trageted at the general public and not railfans. This is a good thing as far as tapping an audience not normally part of a railroad restoration plan. How successful have you been so far? How much money is coming from the genral public as opposed to the rail community?

A couple things: mechanics are doing the easy part of the job. Rebuilding a machine is not nearly as difficult as creating the reason it makes sense to rebuild it - putting it to work. The operation needs to be confirmed before the first wrench is turned, or there's another roundhouse queen, all dressed up and watching the 15 years fly by with no place to go.........and that isn't only track access, it is also a rational and sustainable business plan. And, no, the failures outnumber the successes. We just don't know about the failures because somebody was smart enough to shut down ideas that failed in development when they didn't pan out before talking about them.

These guys reached an important goal, so there is evidence of good business practices. Maybe there's a bit more enthusiasm now than planning going on, or maybe there's more going on in the background that is being shared for good reason. I can see that floating a trial balloon to gauge the interest of the public is a good thing to try, before committing resources to something that may never reach maturity.

Encouraging unsupported dreams because they are fun to think about is no way to make us a stronger part of the entertainment industry.

dave

I'm not rendering judgment, nor am I expressing a use of "poor manners." I'm also not a railfan, but someone who is interested in railroad history and railway preservation.

I applaud ASR's enthusiasm, and like the fact, as SO observed, they are trying to tap the interest of the General Public. I hope they are able to successfully move and restore the 1352 to operation. That being said, enthusiasm, while laudable, cannot take the place of good planning, good fundraising, and experience.

ASR has shown significant fundraising success by being able to purchase the locomotive. I would hate to see this early success diminished by poor planing, or over enthusiasm. I'd also hate to see them damage their relationship with HVSR through misinformation.

Finally, ASR, though its officers is contastanly asking for advice on this forum and elsewhere.

It is good to dream, as long as those dreams are anchored in reality and supported with good planning and fundraising. It's easy to dream, it's a lot harder to make the dream into a reality.

Rob Gardiner wrote:


This is an intriguing thought. I actually would not list the Hocking Valley as a prime location for a railroad museum. It is a bit out in the boonies, for most of the drive-the-interstate crowd. Assuming people will still be driving at all later this and futures summers.

If you are declaring central OH (Columbus) as your working area, then I look to the interstate highway system (primary through-routes) for a location with good public access. There are a rural area southwest of Cleveland which is relatively close to both I-70 and I-71. Between these two is a shortline named the Camp Chase Industrial Railroad. It looks too only interchange with NS on a busy mainline, but perhaps operations on this little stretch could be worthwhile, at least until more urban sprawl consumes the area.

You might browse this map for some other ideas:
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/maps/Pages/0709OhioRailMapRail.aspx
From this I see if you could saddle up with Rail America, or with the Ohio Central System, you would have some interesting options. Wasn't there a guy who ran on the OC in the past? ;-) I seem to recall Rail America is not very tourist railroad friendly, but maybe nobody ever approached them with the "right" business model, whatever that might be.

However, there is something else on the horizon I never saw before until this recent search. The Zanesville and Western is apparently a new tourist railroad which seems to have a professional web appearance. Perhaps it tells of an organization that has its stuff together. If so, mixing your business with theirs could potentially be a path to success.
http://www.zwsr.org/about.html

Ohimichiana - the land of much railroad history, and also many former tourist-railroad-museums that have become history. Good luck out there, things are still evolving.

For the record, TRAINS never reported that Hocking Valley was going to restore the engine. Our News Wire item was factually correct from the outset and it remains factually correct as it stands on our website. It's very important to us that we report our stories accurately, and when we do make mistakes, we own up to them and issue corrections. This is not one of those times.

Just to clarify, we assemble News Wire from any reliable sources we can find. As with any news outlet, we don't make a practice of running news releases as they are given to us. In fact, I encourage our writers to always ask questions not answered in the release and seek out information beyond what's provided there. In this case, my writer used information from a post Mr. Harvey himself made here on RYPN to help provide our readers with additional information.

Hope this helps clarify matters,

Andy Cummings
Associate Editor
TRAINS magazine
Waukesha, Wis.