Honestly I'm spooked from Trex due to the durability issue. Western Railway Museum redid a bunch of picnic tables in Trex about 5 years ago and I think the sun is not being kind to them. I would love to see the performance of a 15 year old deck, particularly one with sun exposure.

Since the material is porous, i.e. has voids, I'm also very very concerned with cumulative effects of freeze-thaw.

I've seen lots and lots and lots of modern solutions that purport to be fantastic, but so many times, trouble follows. It's very tempting to fall into the logic that previous generations were a bunch of ignorant savages and that modern techniques and materials must somehow be better. That doesn't make it so. Turns out the ancients were solving some pretty tough engineering problems which have angles to them we do not consider when we toss out a modern solution. For instance some fellow decided a fiberglass roof would be better than that silly old canvas. Surprise -- epoxy fiberglass is allergic to UV light. It also doesn't flex or thermally expand like canvas. The elements tore it to pieces.


It's a concern in any replication. Those picnic tables (designed for 2x6 wolmanized) bowed terribly and we wound up bolting steel channel to the undersides of the seat boards to stiffen them. You're going to have to divert from historical practice, e.g. more saddles, to make it work.

I applaud the use of "modern" materials in the restoration, and look forward to your ongoing reports about how they hold up.

I have used Trex or similar for the ADA ramp of our historic house with great success, but so far I have always used old school lumber for car work.

We use a lot of epoxy to consolidate tired and rotten sills, or to make better splices.

I suspect you EPDM roof will far exceed any canvas roof.

Randy

Installed my first back when it was called "seamless rubber" on Charlotte Trolley car 85 back in about 1988 and it is still in good condition. I'm certain the formulations have changed a bit in the intervening decades, but generally roofing materials are changed for greater durability, so.....

dave

The Trex of today is not the original product. It has much more Plastic and Much less sawdust. I would have to measure but my recolection is that the span is never more that 24" (I used the historic spacing) If you have noticed from the photos i am no lightweigh and have not noticed any apreciable deflection when walking on it. the original stuff failed very quickly.

Al P.

I know my aunt had her deck made of of a material similar to Trex... Held up until they moved to Shrewsbury. Out of curiosity, where did you find this caboose Al?

That may be so, but as I recall Trex was considered a somewhat new product when I built my deck back in '97 or '98, and it was solid then. This was back when it was only available in one pattern in one color; a smooth light brown board. Yes, the laminar flow of the extrusion process did tend to segregate the larger wood chips to the center of the board, but the board was solid all the way through, no porosity. Board ends cut with a carbide tipped circular saw were as smooth as, or smoother than the rest of the surface, as were the edges of the cut ends when machined to match the edges with a 3/8" radius carbide router bit. I remember thinking at the time that this stuff would make good tack molding for a rubber roof, then reconsidered when I got to wondering if the solid plastic would squeeze the tacks back out, the way steel squeezes Ramset studs out. I should have prepared a test sample back then, but didn't have any tacks... we'd have an answer by now. In any event, I'm sure ring-shanks wouldn't push out, and the Trex isn't likely to split with their use.

I will admit, while part of this deck is not under roof, it doesn't get much sun, and grows a good coating of moss if I don't keep after it. The cedar sole plates of the gazebo that sits on top of this deck have now started to rot out, and will need either replacement of epoxy consolidation soon, but the Trex is as sound as the day it was put in.

I have kept an eye on the Trex web site from time to time, and I seem to recall they offered a 4 x 4 railing post, but I don't see it now. Maybe that section had consolidation problems in its center? The thickest section they offer now is a 2 x 4, 1.5" x 3.5" actual. I suppose two could be laminated to get a thick enough section to make a typical running board saddle. If you've had good luck with cedar, then more power to you, but in my experience it will turn to squish while the Trex above and the EPDM below are still like new.

I recall the maximum span recommended for the "5/4" deck boards was 24"; I used 16" and the deck isn't any more springy than wood. I do recall the recommendation that stacked boards be supported and stickered no further than 36" apart, so the manufacturer must feel confident that the material won't sag on it's own at that span. That should take care of most appications over wood roofs, since nobody actually has need to walk the running boards these days. Steel freightcars from the thirties and later may be a problem, as their carlines were on something like 41" centers.

By the way, don't take any of this as criticism, the caboose looks REALLY NICE. I'm just trying to prompt a discussion of the advantages and potential pitfalls of a product that could have some real advantages for cars that have to remain out in the weather.

The caboose came out of the Steam town collection, was transferred to a local Group (VHRR Bellows Falls) from whom i purchased as they disbanded.

Ironically the other CV caboose in the collection which had been acquired by donation from the Vermont Railway, deemed to be in better condition, was moved to Scranton and is now in ruins as the roof has collapsed, not unlike most of the other wooden cars moved to Scranton that remain outside. They are all basically ready for the dumpster as they have not received the periodic roof repairs that were done by the Volunteer Group in Vermont to keep them watertight. I doubt that any will receive the attention at this late date to keep them from going back to mother earth.

Al P.

Good save, she is an absolute beauty!

Taylor

Some photos from 1/16/12:


Smoke jack area, with roof walk:


End walk, with ladder:



Howard P.

That is really nice looking... really looks no different than the original wood and canvas. Certainly looks better than leaving all the roof hardware off for fear of penetrating the roof membrane. The round edges don't particularly bother me, given the greater likelihood that the boards will be intact when I view them, rather than partially rotted away.

Nice Job Al and crew!

I noticed the roof decking on the CV car is perpendicular to the roof line vs parallel. Is this the way it was designed or was it changed during a previous rehab? Just comparing designs, since the cupola is one way and the body another.

We looked at using EPDM on our N6b, but were concerned about the holes for the hardware voiding any warranties. We also replaced everything on the roof, arched supports to decking and we wanted to try to keep original dimensions. We also weren't sure about 1/4 plywood/luan and whether it would flex enough around the arched roofline with out cracking/splitting over time. Ended up using standard asphalt roll layered over T&G with smooth side of T&G joints up.

Since the car is not under cover, we'll see how well it holds up and may go the EPDM route next time. So far the roof is leak free.

You can see it at www.wvrrm.org.

Bill

Al,

What type of paint did you use on this car?

Thanks
Bill

Bill,

Paint is Valspar tractor paint Case orange. it was a spot on match to a CN orange paint chip. we have been using this paint on a number of projects around our railroad museum. when i compared to The Sherwin Williams Industrial enamel i used on first paint job that is now $100.00 or so a gallon compared to about $35.00 a gallon for the valspar. Orange is a tough color outdoors, so i will see how long it lasts. if memory serves the good sherwin williams started fading after a couple of years.

Al,

That's what I was after. We used oil based Pittsburgh Paint ($60 a gallon) customer mixed to match paitn chips found on our N6b and it faded within a year. We had to deal with knot holes bleeding through and crow droppings as well. So we had to recover it last fall.

We used a cheaper latex paint on Spring Hill tower and it has lasted 5 years or. So more $$ isn't always better. It faded after a couple years, but that's sort of what we wanted since it never looked real good when in service. It's peeling in some places now, so it will probably get another paint job this year if I can get to it. Again the guys who worked in it when it was in service say it looks just like it did when MILW had it...faded and peeling. :)

Is Valspar a Lowes product? What did you use for prep and primer? A lot of times that makes a difference too.

Thanks
Bill

The Valspar paint is easily obtained at Tractor Supply Company stores,

http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/search?p=KK&srid=S6-5&lbc=tractorsupply&ts=custom&pw=paint&uid=742934167&isort=score&view=grid&w=Tractor%20Paint&rk=1

Color selection is limited at about 20 colors although you could mix them together to shift a color if needed.

There is a separate hardner for it too but we haven't used it in any of the paint on any of the projects yet.

Don't remember what Al used for primer but I'm also painting a locomotive without a proper prep job (just giving it an extra coat of protection to hold it over and make it look better until a proper restoration can be done), just scuffing the surface for "tooth" and getting rid of any loose, peeling paint so in the coming years we'll see how this paint holds up both ways.