Go with the less expensive example and put gable ends on it as well as faceades as stated above.

Bag anything that can be used as a missle to throw at the displays (pea gravel). Go the extra bucks for concrete. The black chain link fence is a nice touch and really becomes pretty invisible but it does erect boundaries.

Get it done now because since the economy is rebounding, the prices will only go higher.

Good luck on your project!

Later!
Mr. Ed

If you go for the full strength of the bottom structure, I'd bet on the long term durability of that MUCH more then what looks like is going on up top. With some finish work and landscaping, NO ONE will ever notice the difference. IMHO any preservation organization should go for best bang for the buck every time. If you go though some lean years you'll be thrilled that the slightly more 'industrial' building was able to laugh at hailstones and gusty winds every time.

Robert

I’m generally a lurker, but for a change, there’s something I can throw my 2 cents in.

I’ve been a General Contractor for 30 years. I’ve worked all over the Eastern US. I’ve made a good living doing it and was able to take early retirement. I get a little offended when people believe a GC is making a lot of money off a job. In most cases, that’s not true. You are paying a GC for his expertise. Why is this any different than paying a steam locomotive specialist to rebuild a locomotive? I’m sure that every volunteer organization has some members that THINK they can do the work necessary to rebuilt old number 9. There’s a lot more to this (and construction) than simply knowing HOW to do something.

If I recall, North Carolina requires that a LICENSED general contractor obtain a building permit. Just because you have gone to Home Depot doesn’t make you a contractor. There are a huge number of details that go into both design and construction that a lot of us have learned thru the school of hard knocks. Do you understand the ADA requirements for new construction?

General Liability Insurance? What happens if the building falls down during erection? (I’ve seen it happen) Workers Comp. What happens if someone falls off a ladder/lift/roof?

Take for example the idea of a pre-engineered building (or PEMB). What spacing do you want your columns at? The bigger the spacing (less interference with view), the bigger the footers have to be to resist uplift. How do you handle bracing? Portal frames are the best answer for this case but they are more money than “standard” X-bracing. Fixed base columns or pin-based? It makes a difference in the cost of the PEMB and the cost of the foundations.

What you ultimately need to do is find a General Contractor who is willing to work with you. Like a lot of cases (see K-4 in Altoona), price should NOT be the governing factor.

Take something as simple as paint. Everyone thinks they can paint. If you walk into your local paint store, the standard price is, say $25.00 a gallon. If you talk to them for a while, you can probably get it for $23.00. A real painting contractor buys the same paint for $15.00 a gallon, and if approached correctly, can probably get the paint supplier to throw some materials in for free if you are a non-profit.

The idea of a PEMB isn’t bad, and painting the interior steel is also good. Now the question is what do you paint it with? You should really consider using a very good, long lasting, durable paint so you don’t have to paint again in 5 years. Yes, it’s more money, but now you are into life-cycle costing. Is your group budgeting for long term maintenance (equivalent to the 1474 day inspection?)

I doubt anyone would try to do a major equipment rebuild without an expert. You need to find a building expert to help you out.

Matt, You are getting a lot of good advice... and I applaud the idea of an endowment...
In particular, listen to the advice about working with your board to create a clear consensus about what is being built...

That being said...

Our group is in the final stages of construction of our first car house (building done, fire sprinklers in and charged, electricity, track materials in the building and track construction started) We still need the fire alarm and fire road to get a certificate of occupancy. Ours is a storage building only (i.e. not a public space) This was a budget move. If a public building it needed more ADA compliance and restrooms (we have restrooms elsewhere on site) It is not shop space, to be a working space, it would be public (restrooms and ADA) and would need more closely spaced sprinklers. To get the building built we gave up a fenced "corp yard" next to it... It can be added later.

We discovered that some of the strategies used by railroad museums in the past are no longer legal. We are located in urban California, which causes complications, but the new building rules are spreading fast...

We could not use a pole barn. (a classic telephone pole and standard wood truss with corrugated iron) If we could have, we would have built a pole barn years ago, and now be building its replacement. Pole barns are considered an agricultural building (and we are a farm) but our city did not adopt the agricultural component of the building code, so no pole barn. Pole barns are not the best building in the world, but they went up cheap, with volunteer labor, particularly in a trolley museum where you were already prepared to dig post holes and were comfortable with working on telephone poles.

We found many of the standard steel kit buildings were difficult to adapt to the rules here... At least here it is much simpler to buy a building from (or with) the builder who will erect it. Many of the cheap buildings make their profit on the post purchase engineering to satisfy the local building departments. Local structural engineers want to work on something they designed, and the work involved in documenting the existing building (either in kit form, or a used building) and therefor the cost of getting the required engineer's signature is high, possibly prohibitive.

Building codes here (and coming soon to everywhere else) are becoming more technical, and are requiring more safety features, like fire sprinklers (a good idea, but expensive), more seismic work (that is a California thing, elsewhere it may be wind loading to survive a hurricane, or snow loads, what ever the local environment may offer)

If you are not in informal discussions with your local building authorities, you probably should start. We didn't (for a local political reason) and were surprised at how many suggestions they had. You may get surprised at some of the things required, including paved curbed parking lots.

Some of the requirements may be negotiable. We are required to upgrade the road through the farm for fire access. It is an old macadam road. At one point they a fire captain wanted a very wide curbed paved road, to interstate highway standards (built for an axle loading that is not legal in California) with an unrealistically large turning staging area near the building. After discussions, we have settled on a concrete modified gravel road without curbs. Originally our alarm was going to be very expensive, because we had to cut a city street to get access to a connection... now they are allowing cell based alarms.

Think about phasing the project. The core train shed, with power and basic walkways, then add the details as additional money comes available.

Randy

I would shop around. I took a quick look at some websites for "prefab steel buildings". You can get everything from airplane hangars to executive buildings prefabricated. It doesn't cost you anything to send your request to those sites, even include the photos of your site plan, and see if they can match it. It will cost you nothing but time and either verify your current price or enlighten you with an outstanding price. They may even give you other options. Main factors for them are the wind and snow loads for the structure.

As far as sidewalks, I would not use pea gravel. It will end up on the equipment and all over the parking lot. Little kids like to throw loose rocks and its difficult for anyone in a wheel chair to roll over the stuff. Asphalt is an excellent option, it can be dyed or stamped later to look like brick. Concrete sidewalk poured on your own might be cost effective and can be done as budget allows.

Don't discount any ADA access issues as it will bite you in the butt later on...almost guaranteed if your site is open to the public.

Also look at where the drainage will go from the roof. With your current "L" shaped design that inside corner is going to get lots of roof run-off. Keep the elevation inside of the building higher than the outside so you don't end up with a covered pool.

Chris Vitz, Professional Engineer (Civil)

Absolutely paint the interior members. A good, oil-based enamel paint job that has been professionally applied, laid off, and cut in will eliminate the ugly industrial look of those red beams in the photos above. To further get rid of the industrial look, you could use one or more custom selected ("designed") colors. (Maybe a dark green for the dark areas, and a tan for the light areas? -- I have no idea). An architect with good aesthetic sense will have ideas on color. A painting contractor who does custom residential work will also have ideas on color.

Having just looked over the detailed plans on your museum website (very nice, by the way), I have a couple of suggestions. Eliminate the right angle addition, instead going with a wider truss on the "main" part of the structure. This should save some cost for the engineering involved in the angle, not to mention the potential for leaks in the roof valley area. Also, since you probably won't be bringing in much additional rolling stock, simply extend the main section of the building to cover the paved staging area. If additional equipment does come into the museum, lay temporary track to position it.

I think suggestions of using asphalt paving in lieu of concrete is probably a good idea, except possibly at key corners and expected wheelchair access points. Lighting can be added incrementally, as can landscaping. I think I'd hold out for the steel fencing rather than chain-link, again possibly as an incremental add-on.

And, speaking of guano, make sure you install anything that will prevent birds from inhabiting the area under the roof - you will get unintentional paint jobs (but only in very small areas) otherwise.

dave

Guano is a serious problem with WRM's original car house (a pole barn). There is a convenient truss for the pigeons to roost on which is right above our most-used cars.
I'm told that it is almost impossible to clean dried guano off a canvas roof.

Is there a type of suspended ceiling material which is suitable for use in such a building? If so, that might be a way to block all the possible roosting places and also save the cost of painting the underside of the roof. Of course birds can still roost on the cars, which is another problem.

(In WRM's case, the solution is to build a new building with doors - the pole barn in question is well beyond its design life.)

There are commercial formed metal clip-on systems... they can't be cheap. The City of Chicago specified one style when they designed the rapid transit stations in the median of the Kennedy Expressway on the O'Hare line.

Any suspended ceiling for exterior use is going to be more complex than simple lay-in tiles, since the wind blowing the tiles out is a definite consideration.

The least expensive strategy is probably to use the same pre-painted steel panel system as used on the building walls. I've seen this material used as interior wall finish in several industrial structures. The white material really helps spread the light around. I've seen this same material used as ceiling on at least one display locomotive shelter. Because of the stiffener ribs, it appears that it will span from truss to truss without additional purlins, which is a real plus. Not sure I like the rest of the structure, but the ceiling is nice:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1031296

.

These guys are one of the more popular suppliers of "bird spikes"

http://www.nixalite.com/

I am surprised no one has mentioned splitting the project into phases: i.e.

Phase 1 - Basics - steel beam structure, single level pitched roof, underside painted black to hide framing, column foundations wide enough to match phase 2 cladding. Install trackwork, basic fencing, security lighting, bird protection, minimal pathwork, plantings, resting areas.

Phase 2 - Polish - Clad columns (stucco, wood or metal above, brick below, etc...), install ceiling, roof gables, brims & illumination (general & spot), pea stone outside ballast, visually better fencing, additional pathways &/or better pathways.

Phase 3 - Enhance - other items to improve look, stairways to make it easier to look into equipment, enhance resting area, etc...

Another option is to make shed part A in phase 1 (long 2 track section) and part B (short single track section) in phase 2. or versa visa.

As money is raised, you can combine phases and eliminate duplicates, or if you have money beyond phase 1, add some key items from phase 2 or bank the extra. Dividing the project into phases makes the Funding nut a little more manageable. Also it allows the group to decide which features have to be done first and which ones are purely enhancement or polish. As you are raising money let people know what is being done if you only reach 1/2 the funding, sometimes if there is no plan other than all or nothing (or something they interpret as such) they may hold their money back figuring why risk it if they don't get enough, or they may donate it towards another not so primary project, but if they see contingencies that ensure progress they will be more likely to risk money on your project.

As far as pathways you don't have to use concrete.
Millings - Is there road repair/resurfacing being done in your area, sometimes you can get a truck or two of the millings, spread them out and run a tamper or roller over it and you are done.

Reclaimed Brick - If money is tight reclaimed brick works, it is labor intensive as you will need to clean old mortar off the bricks.

Asphaltum - Pea Stone sprayed with tar

Floating deck - sand bed, with 2x6 PT and a few cross bars screwed on the underside, only to be done in areas with good drainage as the bottom of the 2x6s are even with the top of the sand and the cross ties are in the sand.

I forget the name of it, but mix dry cement and sand, pack and level and let the rain water filter through and turn the path into concrete (usually done under paving bricks). Best done late winter so there is time before the public comes around.

Just some ideas, Best of luck to you,
Rich C.

I would consider concrete block for the support columns which could be clad with brick at a later time. For the roof I would consider prefabbed roof joists and a traditional shingled roof. Add some bracing to make it look like an station platform. As far as fencing, I would go with a simple prefabbed wood picket fence. It could be replaced later. Get rid of the complex geometry of the roof. As far as sidewalks I would use compressed rock ( fines) tamped down. Concrete could be added later. I would advertise in the local paper,through rail preservation groups or model railroad clubs for a volunteer structural engineer to do the design and application.

Here is one of the nicer train display structures I've seen:



The roof is large enough to provide good shelter from the weather, and stands far enough above the equipment that the chooch is visually separate from the roof. The double pitch roof may have added something to the cost, but as a design element evokes memories of the Soo first class frame depots, which used the same roof geometry.

It would appear that this group is following the advice posted above, in the eight years since the main structure was built, landscaping and brick walks have been added, and the web site mentions that the columns are now encased in brick, but no pix.

One addition I hope is planed for the future is a finished ceiling, as this structure has roosting room for a multitude of birds:



The web site gives the name of the designer and builder, Bill Yudchitz and built by his company Revelations Architects-Builders. Not sure he would take a job so far from Wisconsin, but it might be worth contacting him.

Here is the general web site link:

http://www.soo2713.org/index.html