There are at least two ways to consider this: you either approoach it from the POV if "Here's what we want to do, it will cost this much" or "Here's what money we have, what can we do with it that will do the most good towards this goal" or a hybrid or different approach.

In both cases above, you have a defined goal - one financial, one creating a set of conditions. The financial one is an overlay of the set of conditions you want to fund the creation of.......but there's a defined endpoint either way.

"We want to fix it up, or give it away to a good home, or give us other options" is not defined, but it leaves the door open to a lot of innovation. The difficulty here is that you need to very specifically qualify the ability of very different people with very different goals against each other to find the most likely candidate to get whatever done.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out and to find out if any realistic plan worthy of support was promoted by a competent and responsible entity.

dave

Before anyone goes off on some wild tangent about who should rescue this engine, who deserves it, etc., etc., does any one know if anyone responded to the RFP prior to the advertised closing date of August 1, 2012? Does anyone know if the closing date was extended? Has anyone asked these questions of the city government?

The RFP has not been extended - yet.

As to who responded (if any) we are trying to find out. Where the responses are to be reviewed by a commitee I suspect they will not be willing to disclose much until after they have hashed through any responses.

T.

Good news, there were no responses to the RFP. Just so everyone knows, even if they had received responses, the city council would have to approve it before allowing something like this to happen. I spoke with the city councilman tonight about it. He is also going to introduce a resolution to protect the locomotive( erect a fence around it to limit access to it) until something more permanent can be done.
Leverett Fernald

I wonder if they actually sent copies of the RFP out to any preservation organizations or if they just limited the circulation to posting it on the city website. What they are asking for would appear to fall within the scope of the statements of purpose that the NRHS recently posted on their website (3rd paragraph, linked below), at least from a standpoint of being a clearinghouse for preservation opportunities and defining "standards" for preservation:

http://www.nrhs.com/about

PC

OK, I'll bite: what's good about the same people that have owned it and let it rot continuing to do so relative to some other entity with a real plan taking it over? Fence Schmence, it's still going to be sitting and rotting unless there's a commitment to preserving or using her - and if that was the case, the RFP wouldn't have gone out in the first place or been limited to just a "restoration in place" defined purpose.

More of the same inside a cage is still more of the same, and that horse left the barn a long time ago. What am I missing here?

dave

I'm curious if anyone has any information about the group that formed to help stabalize the 470? It was called "Friends of the 470". They formed around 2007.
Are they still solvent? I can't find a website, phone number, or person to contact. Any help would be great.

Brian Hebert

Here is the link to the very lengthy 470 discussion on railroad dot net, if you care to deal with all the advertising and pop-ups they have on that site nowadays. It would appear that the last mention of the group was around 2007. Some of the names appearing in the discussion should look familiar:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 77&t=12162

This discussion brings back thoughts of the Flying Yankee. Their e-mail newsletter arrived the other day and once again money is needed to get the air brake system installed and get the train onto its trucks again. One little problem, they tell me very little money is coming in these days. And that it the way it is throughout much of preservation right now. Until the economy gets better, I can't see how things are likely to change very much any time soon, particularly since many groups in the Northeast have lost a lot of members in the last decade. Here is an article from this week pertinent to the real economic situation out there:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ates-july/

PC

It is important to understand what the RFP (request for proposals) process is, and how it works.

Government agencies are required to solicit bids before committing to contracts. This is easy if you are buying 10 half ton pick-up trucks… or fire extinguisher maintenance… or cleaning service… in those cases you know what you want, and issue a request for bids, with a careful description of what you want to buy, then open the bids, look at the low bid, confirm it meets the specifications and go… Law required that you are required to accept the low bid (unless disqualified on technical grounds)

An RFP is used when you don’t know what you want, but you know there is a issue/project that you want to solicit bids for… The RFP defines a problem, an issue, and solicits both a plan to deal with said issue, and a price quote… generally these are judged, by first looking at the plan, and ranking the bidders, and they looking as cost separately, after the plan has been judged.
In a perfect world, they might have had multiple responses to be judged… something like

1) A for profit company saying they would restore the engine for static display for $200,000 and build a shelter for another $200,000…

2) A second might have come from a railroad museum who offered to take the locomotive away… no cost to the City

3) A third from a local preservation group saying they would restore said loco over x number of years, if he city invested in a shelter. They might include letters from the local Rotary club committing to x$ per year to support the volunteer group…

4) Finally the local used iron dealer might have offered to buy the loco and cut up on site…

City staff could then review the options, and recommend one to the City Council, who would likely debate them publicly and choose one… Note: They are not required to choose the low bid.

On the other hand, in is possible that someone in City government complained about the rust bucket, and staff put out a RFP hoping someone would take responsibility in a way that protected staff’s backsides…

Even if staff were truly trying for the first option, likely have no knowledge of railroad preservation, or where they might send the RFP announcement.

In this case, staff could argue that no one cares about the loco (after all, they put out an RFP and no one responded) and they can take steps to dispose of the (insert favorite negative adjective) thing.

It will take someone with local knowledge to tell us what was really going on...

Randy

There were no responses to the RFP. Any proposals submitted in response to the RFP would have had to pass through the commitee. Their recommendatinos would need to be approved by the city council.

The City of Waterville is very aware of the anger and disgust that would result from a outright scrapping of the locomotive. Thier big concern iS safety and resultant liability due to the deterioration of the cab and tender.

As a short term solution they are considering a fence to keep the public at a distance.

Basicly with no responses to the RFP the City would no doubt be open to suggestions and assitance.

Now a clarification:
When Leverett examined the 470 it was with an eye towards a full restoration to operating status. As part of that he suggested that some appliances were not required. This did not mean that they were to be removed or hacked-off - mearly that iems such as the feedwater heater and booster engine did not require restoration to make the locomotive operable - they in fact could be bypassed, disconected etc. until time and funding allowed for thier restoration.

Can't someone do some cleanup of the rust and get a new coat of paint on her? Maybe a volunteer group (signing liability waivers) with the city paying for paint. And get a fence up. Not a perfect solution but something that can be done quickly, even before winter, without a lot of hand wringing.

Steve

This may have been a rummor back in the 1980's, but I'd thought I'd check it out for the true story. Wasn't there talk at one time of the 470 going to the Conway Scenic Railroad to join the MEC 2-8-0 stored there? If for anything, her own protection? Thanks - Dave

Good afternoon,
I have been away for a couple of days, or I would have responded to Dave's comment sooner.
To be fair to the city of Waterville, 470 has deteriorated to the point of it being a liability and safety hazard to anyone that is around it. They know something must be done about it and this was their way of trying to deal with it.
As far as the process and possible responses, I think Randy hit the nail right on the head. The first 3 options would be great ways to preserve 470, but the 4th could have easily been the only one submitted. When I said it was good news that no RFP's were received, I was basing that on the most likely scenario of a scrapper bidding on it. With no RFP's submitted, this means there is time for whoever may have the means to do something about this to come forward and do something about it. The problem is finding that someone with the means.
When I was on the "Friends" committee, there were plenty of ideas and a good plan, but there just wasn't any money available to do anything.
Filmteknik, as far as volunteers getting together to paint it, this locomotive is well beyond the paint stage. The last time it was painted was back around 1982 when Maine Central's paint crew did it, and I think that was when the jacket and asbestos were removed. Back then it wasn't in too bad a shape. Too bad it didn't have a roof put over it then.
David, there was never any mention in the meetings about 470 going to Conway, so it's safe to say it is not true.
I would be willing to help form another group, or help out with this as I have time, but unless someone with the means to fund this restoration comes along, there isn't much we can do about it. As far as I can see, the city's idea to build a fence around it is probably the best option for now.
Leverett Fernald

Yes, no response from a scrapper is good news - but presumably the committee wouldn't have recommended that in any case. No response from potential responsible new homes, not so much........

Anyhow, now that you've explained what you said I know what you meant.

New thread indicates opportunities now open and it has been posted here....and where else that any legitimate potential new owner might see it? Let's spread the word as best we can to likely candidates.

dave