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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Bobharbison wrote:
Are you sure it was for real? They used to run some pretty convincing April Fools Day gags...

Assuming it was, that's amazing. The wasted space and complexity boggles the mind. As you mention, imagine doing it for the whole railroad. Also, who would appreciate it? I guess he did, and that's what matters.

Model railroading sure was different in those days.


I wouldn't think it's a gag. Model Railroading was most certainly different in those days. Few if any modelers had any expectation of building a huge layout with a coherent theme; there was too little available, and one person can only build so much from scratch in a lifetime. Instead, the layout was viewed as a place to display a series of neat projects taken to completion. The working interlocking frame someone mentioned (I remember that article) is an example... the modeler didn't expect to build one for every crossing on the layout... he only expected to build ONE, to prove he could. Then it was on to the next neat project. The quarter size automatic and independent brake valves Linn Wescott built to house the controls of his True Action Throttle is another of this sort of project, as was the miniature steam locomotive cab with working controls built by Jack Burgess. Neither was expected to be the prototype for a whole fleet, just a neat project. This was a hobby, after all.

Three position semaphores have always been a pain to animate in the smaller scales; getting the blade to consistently stop at the center position when coming from either direction is a challenge. I'm sure someone who had access to a retired semaphore mechanism realized the full size item could be adapted... this doesn't mean he expected to have a whole bunch of working semaphores on his layout... He was going to have ONE, but it would work correctly.

It kind of reminds me of a number of trolley layouts that used a prototype platform controller as a rotary switch to control the model.

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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3971
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
I'm going to have to look in the basement and go through a bunch of boxes to confirm this, but here are some search results from the NMRA magazine search page, using the term "three position semaphore:"

"Slow-Action Semaphore Mechanism," by Vince Caselli, Model Railroader, September 1961, page 46; this is my best guess on the semaphore model that used a full-scale mechanism. This article is now over 50 years old; I wonder what became of the railroad, and of the other things that had to be with it, like the back issues of magazines, books, the models, and that semaphore mechanism:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=13602

Here are the issues with the mechanical interlocking articles--six of them, all by Paul Larson and Gordon Odegard:

Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling; Part 1 of 6, Model Railroader, January 1961, page 28:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1242

Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling, Part 2 of 6: How to Design Your Interlocking Frame, Model Railroader, February 1961, page 28:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1243

Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling, Part 3 of 6: Track Diagram and Interlocking Cabinet, Model Railroader, March 1961, page 28:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1244

Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling, Part 4 of 6: Semaphores with Lost-wax Parts, Model Railroader, April 1961, page 50:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1245

Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling, Mechanical Interlocking and Signaling; Part 6 of 6: Working Dwarf and (rest is cut off), Model Railroader, June 1961, page 46:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1247

Part 5 is missing from this index, but it would logically have been in the gap represented by the May issue. Note how the May issue has a short index compared with the others:

http://www.olimpia.com:8084/ListIssue?issue_id=1246

I'll try to confirm some of this; at least I have a guide to go by; the magazines are in my basement. . .but now watch my wife exclaim, "What are you doing down there again with those musty magazines?"

Of course, if someone has sprung for that electronic or disc edition of the magazine Kalmbach offered a while back. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12147
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Maybe tomorrow I can justify the Md. Rail Heritage Library having a complete set of Model Railroader (well, up to 2000 or so) and RMC...........


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:26 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
That item about using a full-size controller to run a model streetcar layout reminded me of one of the controllers in a collection at my "home museum". We were sorting out some relics and I was looking inside a Westinghouse HL controller (from either a PE Hollywood car or an LARy "H" class car). There were several small-gauge wires inside, indeed they looked like something from a telephone system. I was told that at one time the donor actually controlled his table-top layout with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I found the one article using a motor and reduction gears, nothing else yet,

but I found the april fools edition in MR, one article is about pressurizing your basement to eliminate unsightly support posts for your house, you have to make a pressurizing chamber before entering your layout area...

another talks about converting your Blarney 2-6-2 into a Forsythe 2-6-2 (the read is thicker but you only save the Blarney pony truck trashing the rest, and get all the parts for the Forsythe and stick the Blarney pony on it...

It describes a simple throttle for your loco (and shows a massive electronic circuit)

and a picture of the mag editor who is a stickler for details making fingerprints applied to backside of TT handrails, and lint fibres stuck on caboose wall interiors from brakemen leaning on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Maybe tomorrow I can justify the Md. Rail Heritage Library having a complete set of Model Railroader (well, up to 2000 or so) and RMC...........



Too bad you weren't looking a couple of years ago. You could have had 30+ years for the cost of shipping. I finally gave up saving them.


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
J3a-614 wrote:
Of course, if someone has sprung for that electronic or disc edition of the magazine Kalmbach offered a while back. . .


MR is still availble on DVD. Looks like it covers 1934 to 1009. $200 will get you one direct from the Big K.
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15120.html


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12147
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Bobharbison wrote:
Too bad you weren't looking a couple of years ago. You could have had 30+ years for the cost of shipping. I finally gave up saving them.


You misunderstand. We have a complete set from 1934 to more-or-less present, and I don't think anyone but me has referred to any of them in about a dozen years.

Right now I have a not-quite-complete set of Railfan 1999-2010 and lots of Trains Magazine from an estate, many of the latter still in original mailing bags, down in my car--today's sort at the Md. Rail Library. Around here, resale value of back issues has plummeted to near nothing. Anyone want to pay freight, or do we give them to the free book giveaway warehouse here in town in hopes of germinating more railfans?


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12147
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Bobharbison wrote:
MR is still availble on DVD. Looks like it covers 1934 to 1009. $200 will get you one direct


I really, REALLY want to see what the issues pre-railroading (1009-1800) and pre-movable type look like......


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
There was a big change shortly after 1066; the scribes had to switch from Anglo- Saxon to Norman French. I can imagine an article from the 18th Century--"Modeling a Newcastle Mine Tramway".

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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1087
kevin kohls wrote:
I understand that there was an article in one of the Model RR magazines; perhaps the 1960's where a fellow had a model railroad equipped with real semaphore signals from perhaps the Erie RR. They worked, he had the semaphore mechanisms under the layout.


Kevin, I remember reading that article. I subscribed to RMC back in the 70s, so I think you are looking for Paul Lubliner's "Realistic semaphore mechanism" article in the April 1979 Railroad Model Craftsman. (I no longer have a copy of that issue, so I cannot confirm for sure.)

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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:47 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
I have a fairly thorough collection of MR/RMC etc, but some missing issues, that issue wasnt in my 1979 spot, I pull specific mags for special study, it might be somewhere else, otherwise the mag is out there to buy.
I need to recheck the collection and try to complete it.
I know about the MR digital versions, I dont think RMC has one yet.

That should be done to the Traction and Models Mags.


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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:12 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Wadsworth, Ohio
Well, it is true - "Realistic semaphore mechanism" by Paul Lubliner is on page 81 of the April 1979 Railrod Model Craftsman. He claims to have 22 of these units in operation, which he picked up for a "reasonable price" at a local scrap dealer in "restorable condition." He installed them on his "Bullfrog Southern Lines" railroad, and there are three photos [Stop (red), Approach (yellow) and Clear (green)] showing the mechanism in different positions. He goes to great detail to explain how he made it work, and how the "bounce" works, but the clincher is his final paragraph...: "I realize this may seem a great length to go for the effect, but I wanted the most realistic action possible for the signals on my B.S. Lines."

Hmmmm... "B.S. Lines in the April issue?!?!....

Perhaps those thinking along the lines of an April Fool's joke are not far off....

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 Post subject: Re: Model RR that had Real full size semaphore signals
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:06 am 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm
Posts: 298
Phil:
Thanks to you and the interest of everyone else I have an answer. It did sounds nuts indeed; but there you have it ! Fact can be stranger than fiction !

Thanks all !

Kevin K


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