I myself, at the age of 16, dream of being able to atleast have a hand in either restoring or running a steam locomotive. I have high prospects though and I don't bet on being able to do such a thing its still a dream I like to think about. I can't remember what it was that got me into trains, it could be my first walk through the LSRM or something, I can't quite remember but as of now I am very interested in either being an assistant or apprentice to those willing to teach me about such things. You guys can rely on the fact that what I know now and what I hope to know in the future will be passed on to those that I know or the kids I have, if they are willing to listen. I have yet to find a place close enough for me to volunteer at, the Minnesota Transportation Museum is a bit to far from where I currently live as are all other museums I could help.

Hopefully a future steam man
Austin Heiderscheid

Let me see.

* Were the organizers retirees? Yes, you say?

* Did this thing happen to cost a hundred dollars a plate? Yes, you say?

* Was it primarily promoted on Facebook and forums? Did people pay on EventBrite? No, you say?

Well... there ya go :)

Not to be dismissive, but I'm halfway between those two age groups, so I kinda get both viewpoints. And I gotta say, the ones out of touch are actually the elders. Elders are good at reaching each other, but they confuse that with being able to outreach the community at large. Actually, they suck at the latter. And they have just failed to notice their own failure at this, because it seems like it's working.

Some interesting,informative and encouraging postings.

Yesterdays event was $ 30/plate, organized by the 113 group which has a sprinkling of under 30 yr. old members although most are in the 50 and up category, and yes it was advertised here and on other forums.

I do attempt to practice what I preach and whenever I'm on engine duty I make every attempt to encourage young folks who show an interest in the engine to come aboard for a cab visit and try to answer their questions fully.

Bottom line I guess is that all us old timers need to do all possible to generate interest in the youngins as our way of helping insure steam is still around 50 years from now.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

Ideally, an organization needs to have lots of old guys with time and money AND lots of young'uns with time and energy, AND adults with money and energy but too little time- the trick is that the two latter groups need to welcome and encourage the young'uns and listen to the young'uns about what will keep their interest and keep bringing them back. We need to ensure the younger members share in the decision making- after all, they are the future of our museums.

And, perhaps most important, and hardest to accomplish... as we all age, we need to be willing to pass the torch, keep welcoming young'uns and not to be condescending, mean, critical, or otherwise make them feel like they aren't wanted.

Eventually, we will all reach the point where our most important contribution is to help fund preservation, encourage and support younger volunteers, and share our experience with them. It's knowing when we need to step back from "active duty" and enjoy watching

I was lucky. As a teenager, I was welcomed with open arms as a volunteer, and given the opportunity to make a meaningful contribution to railway preservation. Over the years I encountered a number of individuals who did just the opposite, and they did a huge amount of damage to the museum. Fortunately those individuals are gone now and we're back on track, attracting and keeping young volunteers again.

Remember, every time a young volunteer comes out, thank him/ her, and be sure to ask what will make volunteering a rewarding experience. Take their answers to heart!

Steve Hunter

Thing about being old, is you see cycles.......not original events.

When we boomers expanded into the economy, when civil rights opened a lot of economic doors that had been unfairly locked, when interest rates on mortgages went up to 20% diring the Carter administration, when we were doing something that didn't make sense in Viet Nam and nobody knew how we could get out of it, when the tech bubble burst, when the Dow exceeded 500..........based on what?

Times were always good and bad at the same time, and always will be.

Young people have the same time pressures working boomers have, and working boomers also see the programs we paid into for all our working lives - which had surplusses as recently as the Clinton administration - as not only a Ponzi scheme but a betrayal. Younger workers have time to plan for it - we're just screwed. Buried under the presures of social media? Unsubscribe and you will have a lot of time with many fewer inconsequential interruptions. I tried facebook at the urging of an old friend.....found I was getting many messages from people I didn't know or want to know about things that I wasn't interested in or part of and dropped it. You can, too....... I don't even feel I need to answer my home phone or cel just because it rings, I can screen calls when it's convenient for me to do so.

I have a full time job I'm paid to do and another as a caregiver for 3 generations I don't get paid for, but it takes up a lot more time and energy. You adapt and new normals evolve.........

So, in practical terms I'm up against wanting to contribute to some very interesting railway preservation projects I am not near and don't have the freedom on Saturdays to take part in even if I lived next door. Technology SHOULD allow me to contribute meaningfully after over 30 years in the business......skype can make meetings happen anywhere, data can be easily shared across international boundaries, yet I'm up against a cultural brick wall about meaningful communication taking place only F2F and greater value placed on hands-on contributions - even marginal ones - than on potentially more meaningful game changing possibilities which could be explored and resources being not only underused but often not even recognized........

and I've been working on this stuff longer than many posters in this thread have been alive. If I can't get stuff done, how can someone new with little in the way of experience and industry contacts hope to make a meaningful difference?

I'm assuming here that personal reward for them is based on ability to contribute meaningfully, not on personal aggrandizement. If not, they're already in big trouble no matter where their interests lie.....

So we're wasting valuable resources not only in terms of youthful interest squandered, but over all age groups because of the way we define our values and the cultures we build around them. Inclusivity means also including people who can't be physically there, but have a lot to contribute if a channel is available for them to act.

Open channels. Redefine value. Broaden our cultural bias away from only beating on rusty iron in political popularity contest based groups. Instead of trying to force people into an existing set of value calculations, expand the definition of valuable to include what people can do - and actively recruit people who can do anything that can help you achieve a broad and defined set of goals, from wherever they are whenever they can. Welcome means welcome. Included means included.

This is bigger than age and feelings - it's about getting out of our own way and prospering as a result.

dave

Ross,

I think the simple answer is that a noontime luncheon on Sunday is perfect for retirees, but not for younger people - many of us have to work on the weekends, have children to care for, and/or would have been out late on Saturday night.

We had our annual NRHS Chapter Banquet yesterday. We also have an annual summer picnic--a major affair, many grills, lots of food, potluck/donate to cover costs, etc.

Every year, we see folks that come out ONLY for the banquet/and/or picnic, and never (or hardly ever) to the Monday evening monthly meetings.

Why? Some can't or won't drive at night (age, sleep, whatever). Some can't stay out on a work night. Some won't come downtown (the banquet is held in the suburbs, but at a place easily accessible to public transit). A couple were "stuck" running streetcars or hosting visitors at two rail museums in town.

And, as you can imagine, a few folks that wanted to be at the banquet were instead off on/chasing either the NS steam excursion out of Norfolk or the photo charter on the South Branch Valley RR.

And I didn't take my wife along because vegetarians tend to fare poorly at old-fashioned banquets, or not get their money's worth.

The kinds of people that we should like and like to volunteer/do things are typically broad-minded with a multitude of interests. Every September and October, my weekends fill up with multiple options--excursions, special charters, festivals, concerts, you name it. If we could only recruit a few people who are so bored/boring they have nothing better to do than sit on their front steps or on their porches......

Ross:
Excellent question and one which I feel I can address, having been a young volunteer (started age 11 actually 40+ years ago), left for a bit when I first got married, returned and eventually ended up as chairman of the board. Along the way I learned a great deal and made some of the best friends a person could ever have. So, with that said, a few comments and maybe a suggestion or two:

1) I would tend to agree that politics is a big issue. This is not a new problem and some kids will hang on while others will be lost to girls, cars, college, etc. I was lucky enough to have some older guys teach me a great deal and even at 14 or 16 years old, was treated like an equal. Has nothing really to do with training. It was really just a matter of being a decent guy towards the younger generation. Although they are long gone, I will forever remember them.

2) To me, the bigger issue, at least here in NJ, are the child labor laws which prevent a junior member under 18 from essentially handling any power tools, running any equipment, and not operating a locomotive in revenue service. In 1975 I started firing a certain shay at 14 and had my state fireman's license within weeks of turning 18. Today you can't fire until you are 18 so you have a tough time holding on to a young, say 16 year old, member. Catch a kid at 16, get them on an engine (steam of course), and you have a volunteer for life. We got caught by the state and were forced to implement changes in what projects a junior member could participate in. Its saddens me as today as an adult, I have rebuilt a house, cars, my own locomotive, etc mainly due to the training I received even before I was 18. Heck, I learned how to drive stick on a Plymouth, a locomotive that is, well before I was old enough to drive a car. Kids today graduate high school and generally have been provided nearly a zero opportunity to learn a decent skill. When I was 18 and graduating, I could work in a machine shop, probably have gone to work for a real railroad, knew how to do wood work, how to apply a decent coat of paint, could have been a boiler operator with my license, etc.

3) And of course, steam is required. Nothing grabs a kid like steam. Thomas proves that. As does the Polar Express to just provide an example or two. I don’t see Strasburg installing a 15” gauge diesel.

So, again, from years of experience as a kid, as management, and as an old fart, the older set has to simply be a decent person to the younger members. Organizations need to address the state child labor laws and figure out how to give kids a chance at having some fun “at the throttle.” And of course, steam.

Hope this helps,
J.R. May

One point is that some mueseums were started by WW II veterans who came home from service, realized that trolleys were about to disappear, and decided that museums should be created so this heritage did not vanish.

Many of these men were single at that time. They were all ages from young 20's to late 40's.

I was impressed with the way that the people at the 12" ga. Wabash, Frisco & Pacific near St. Louis actively seek out younger people to be volunteers and train them in operations on the railroad. I was told that several had at least gone on to work at a couple of regional amusement park railroads, if not full-size. See photo of some of them when I was there about 4 years ago.

614 wrote:
I had the pleasure of attending a fund raiser luncheon this noon in Pottsville,Pa. to generate support for the 113 loco. restoration project which is coming along nicely.

Of the roughly one hundred attendees approx. 90 were senior citizens and of that 90 I'd guess that the median age of that group was 70-72 years old."



Funny thing about these events. When you stepped up to the podium deliver your remarks, which by the way, were a nice mixture of congratulation for efforts past and present, as well exhortation to continued support, I was sitting at the table to your immediate right. I was going to offer these words in person, but you had departed.

While I don't doubt what has been said, how are child labor laws being applied to a volunteer organization? I don't know much about how that works other than what pertained to me as a kid in New York. It sounds like having some competent or supportive government representatives allied with your cause might help to resolve the problem.

I can vouch for the child labor laws being a problem even in volunteer work. It doesn't help that our son looks far younger than he actually is at 23, so anything he does gets unwanted attention from real or self-appointed child savers who happen to see him working. (That includes whoever called Children's Services to complain that our "little boy" wasn't in school and was out mowing the lawn. He was 19 at the time.) Thank you to all of you who have enbcouraged him over the years in spite of having to calm down the complainers.

By the time I was 16, I could weld passably (not well, mind you, but usably,) solder, use most small power tools, work with pipe, do basic concrete work and lay block. We taught our son the same things, but he wasn't allowed to use any of them in public until he was 18. Even the joint vocational school is having trouble because they can't do most hands-on work with their students until they're 18, which means most can't do anything until late in senior year. I don't know whether there's a critical age for learning manual skills, but it seems to be so.

While it seems odd that child labor laws would apply to volunteers, they do. Its the law, at least here in NJ. Myself and another trustee sat through that rather painful meeting with the State of NJ and learned all about it. We did set up some apprenticeship programs which helped but it was never the same. And yes, an anonymous complaint was lodged focusing on a very competent 16 year old operating a locomotive. He was probably more competent than many of the adults operating the same locomotive and he was a key element in the shop as well, in part because he could fit through a fire door and roll tubes. A good kid who fired for me ( a complete natural) and I even let him run the locomotive, prior to his 18th birthday.
J.R.