I believe the K88 is back in service, but with a new boiler, all welded design.

I called the Mulberry Phosphate Museum to inquire about their plans for the locomotive, and was told that they do not own the locomotive. They want to acquire it, but it is still owned by the state of Florida, and they have yet to decide what to do with it. Several parties are interested in acquiring it. The State made a considerable expenditure of time and effort to discover the history of the locomotive, going by numbers they found on it.

The museum contact could not tell me what the State discovered about the locomotive or what State office would know further details. I made some calls to the State, but reaching the pertinent office seems impossible. Does anybody know of a Florida state office that might at least be close to the involvement with this locomotive?

any restoration work requires careful deciding what to do, but its hard for me to believe the thick metal on a boiler would succomb like this, especially when they are designed to hold boiling water under pressure. They would not have been able to drag this out of the water and muck, it would have already fallen to pieces.

And who was this who did something like that and learned the hard way, what were they doing, please explain and detail this experience for everybody than generalize.

In the 765 restoration one of the helpers was working on a water device that had a filter, he pulled the filter out, and crumbled it in his hand, I had the camera there but missed the moment.


I wouldnt put a cab etc back on the engine, but I would clean one half side and leave the other side rusted out for comparison what such an event does to submersion like this, and have some pics or renderings what the engine was.

This locomotive will begin to flake and peel apart if it is not chemically or electrolytically treated. Don't let the mass of iron fool you. Those little atoms are already actively bonding to atmospheric oxygen.

Treat it, have professional conservators work on whichever side is best restored to whatever degree might be possible. You will never get clean lettering and refined metal work from original casting.

Civil War artifact, perhaps? Great find, and I'm certain there are scores of others elsewhere.

I will try again tomorrow to contact the Florida state office that is involved in the recovery of this locomotive. I was told by the Mulberry Phosphate Museum that the people from the state had done a lot of research on the locomotive, including tracking by the numbers they found on the iron. I assume those would be casting numbers, and would not expect those to lead to historical documentation, but you never know what they may have actually found.

My main curiosity is to learn what they plan to do with the locomotive. I have my own ideas, and suspect they may not be what will ultimately be decided. I see the locomotive as being significant only because it is a tangible piece of a long gone historical era. The shear antiquity is staggering. Its symbolic nature is almost of equal stature to its physical nature. To me, it is like a fossil with its own story to tell. I would display it as such.

Being that the state of Florida has lavished so much attention on the locomotive, one can only hope for a thoughtful outcome in the conservation and display.

I am not convinced that it will disintegrate in air if it is not subjected to an exhaustive electrolysis treatment. I have recovered iron artifacts from lakes where the submersion was probably a century or more. Once recovered and washed clean, that iron has been perfectly stable for years so far.

They used that special stabilization treatment for the Civil War submarine, Hunley, but that was recovered from salt water.

i'd be more curious why its in the muck, if its an accident or a Civil war thing.

Yesterday, I talked to a person at the State of Florida office related to the recovery of the locomotive. I am awaiting further information from them regarding the exact status at this time. The locomotive was used by a phosphate mine, and is believed to have been intentionally discarded in the pond circa 1920. Some parts had been torched off of it.

I was told that there is no anticipated problem with deterioration or disintegration of the locomotive following the removal from water where it was found. I was told that this issue does not apply to fresh water.

I didnt think so, theres a general acidity such as rain, but how long that acidity remains in standing water I wonder, because of bacterial life, stuff in the water, whatever. minerals probably build up on the parts for sure tho.

Greetings:
I stopped by the Mulberry Phosphate Museum (101 SE 1st. St. Mulberry, FL) last Thursday (1/23/15).
The remains of the 4-4-0 are on display alongside the parking lot in front of the museum, under an open sided shed with a little fence around it.
It looks pretty much the same as the photo above, but the drivers are sitting on a short section of track and the cylinders are supported by blocking so the whole thing is level.
I'd be the last to say, with certainty, that it isn't a product of Manchester, but given what is left of the locomotive, I would certainly like to know how that conclusion was arrived at...
J.David

The top is a detail of the Edison 4-4-0 at Greenfield Village which started life as a Manchester 0-4-0. The bottom is a recent photo of the Florida specimen. Note the construction of the cylinders. The similarity is striking!

I like the way they have displayed the engine and retained the status of an archeological artifact. Now that a lot of that crusted corrosion has fallen off, it looks more interesting as the details are exposed. It looks like that crusted layer will completely fall off over time without needing to be chipped off or removed by some other method. The cylinder casting and valve chests do look like they are from a Manchester locomotive.

Some Manchester locomotives had very distinct drivers. Instead of the typical spokes, they had teardrop shaped holes through a solid disc of the wheel. But many photos of Manchester locomotives show the more typical spoked drivers. Maybe the current spoked drivers were added during rebuilds over the years. But there are early Manchester locomotive illustrations that show spoked drivers.

So, although the historians involved in the recovery say that it is a Manchester locomotive, it is unclear how they come to that conclusion. In any case, I suspect that this locomotive had an exciting life in common carrier service before it was employed at the phosphate mine. I wonder if its history will ever be completely discovered. In any event, I am very pleased at the approach they have taken with the locomotive after its recovery.

I find that interesting on how a steam locomotive get buried by people. The story reminds me about an episode of American Pickers I think it was called "the Legend of the Lost Indian" when a guy buried an Indian motorcycle in his backyard. The guys had to dig it up and found it along with old car parts. That episode is my favorite because of that. This story just shows you'll never know what you might find underground.

Another example of buried equipment: the Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes group in Phillips, Maine has the original tender tanks from SR&RL 2ft gauge Baldwin 2-6-2s 16 and 18, which the railroad dumped in the fill at the south end of the Phillips yard sometime after 1916 when the engines were rebuilt by the Maine Central and received new tenders. The existence of the two tenders remained unknown for the next 87 years or so until someone noticed an odd piece of metal sticking out of the ground in 2003 and decided to investigate. The dimensions of the tanks were matched to Baldwin records, thus verifying their identities

-Philip Marshall

Glad to see the follow up and the interpretation of this locomotive (though I have to admit I'm one who would like to see it run--ho, ho, ho!)

Speaking of buried locomotives, what may be a considerable "stash" that is still around would near Skagway, Alaska, on the White Pass & Yukon. A number of steam locomotives were dumped in a fill there, and I believe not too long ago (like the 1960s or so). I believe one or two may have been pulled from there since, but I'll have to check on that.

It would be interesting to find out what is (or was) in there.

Probably not a Civil War artifact-the railroads didn't reach that far into Florida until after the 1880s. Probably an 1870s vintage locomotive or later-most of the Civil War era locomotives were gone to scrap by 1900.