I find it interesting that so few seem to find concern with this brazen act. The arrogance belongs with those who condemn this type of activity.

Because I do work for a Class 1 I know that there is a problem with foamers tramping around in the weeds with safety vests on thinking that since they are wearing the right clothes...they can do as they please. It has become a real issue in some areas...and it is sad.

I also hope the trespasser got written permission and signed a release. If a brakeman or carman gave permission...well...I doubt they have the authority to give permission to trespass on private property. It will need to come from higher up. I suggest that the owner of this car contact CP and find out who gave this permission.

Why did those photos have anything to do with preservation anyway? My associates who move passenger cars around the country will typically say..."we are trying to keep this to ourselves and off the internet until the car is on our peoperty to eliminate any problems". So defend this type of nonsense if you will...but it is unlikely that somebody will find out about the car and try to get on board and scrape paint or replace missing fixtures. More then likely trespassers are there to committ more crimes...do more damage and other selfish acts. By posting the details of this move...the car has become less safe.

If something happens to this car before it gets to it's destination...who is to say that Mr. Safety Vest didn't fascilitate the crime?

Remember...only you can protect passenger cars.

T7

Hi Alexander,

If you and others will accept my apology, I did not mean to lump all of you into the same group at 'that' poster.

I had just woken up, read the comment and went off half cocked. Again, I sincerely apologize to those who are worthy of such. ;)

And I will in the future most certainly take your advice about stating "on property with permission". I'm probably going to put the whammy on myself, but I've always sought out an employee and asked for permission to be in an area not generally accessible to non employees. I'm really not one for guerrilla railfanning. And to be quite honest, I've had an astounding amount of success in getting access. That, is something my father taught me.

And a retired railroad employee who has become quite a close friend taught me the value in wearing hi-viz safety vest when railfanning and I.D. in plain sight.. It is just more professional, and eliminates what I call the "sneaking factor". It make me obvious to others so obviously I myself not trying to be unseen..

The old adage holds true: "you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"

Alex, again, my apologies; and my thanks for your advice.

Let's reiterate something:

At the moment, it appears, from past posts, that this car is being sent "unescorted," without an "expediter" shadowing the car as it moves. Furthermore, it appears that either this car has been sent out and returned for reloading, or has been adrift on the railroad system for literally months--almost a year, in fact.

I've been an expediter. I've sat and twiddled my thumbs and caught up on reading in railroad yards from Miami to New York to Georgia to Wisconsin, shadowing shipments like this. And from my experience with passenger equipment, this kind of "trespasser" is the least of your concerns. I've reported "hobos" riding trains (not my cars, thankfully); I've had to restrain yardmasters cluelessly trying to hump a car boldly placarded "DO NOT HUMP"; I've had to document damage done during switching (which I personally witnessed); I've stopped rock throwers by my mere presence.

A car or shipment like this is in greater danger from being ignored and sent unescorted than it is from your run-of-the-mill trespasser. When I am an expediter, my job is not just to watch the shipment for unexpected problems, but also to be a cattle prod to the yardmasters, making sure the car keeps moving the way and direction it's supposed to, and that they have NO excuses whatsoever to shove it aside, foist it off on some other yard or division, etc. I've had arguments at five in the morning with crews desperate not to touch something that doesn't look like a regular load of freight, something outside their comfort zone, and heard every fathomable excuse in the book just from one crew alone. And this is on top of the risk of some hobo setting a fire in this thing to keep warm, and setting it afire in the process.

The scenario I am seeing with this car, based on available evidence, sets off several alarms with me, and should with anyone else with experience shipping vintage rail equipment. This is not a slight of the railroad employees, many/most of whom are conscientious and great to work with--it could be mismanagement by superiors, and it could even be miscommunication. Heck, maybe the new owners screwed up grandly. I just hope that this doesn't become a very expensive or painful learning experience--like the group I know that thought they got crane work donated to them, only to get an unexpected four-figure bill for the crews. (The company donated the equipment rates and set-up, but the group misunderstood that they still had to pay for the crews.)

Wow this forum goes from bad to worse....some of these replies are so ridiculous /rude and arrogant, shame we dont have a moderator we need one urgently...

The trucks for this car are already at Granby CO, and they expect delivery of the body in June.
See here http://www.moffatroadrailroadmuseum.org/projectcar.html

So clearly it does have a lot to do with preservation and will make a fabulous exhibit, congrats to the museum for going all out to acquire this gem

Mike Pannell

This is the car, is was sold several years ago to a railroad museum in CO
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... Coach-SOLD

It is because we took the time to speculate that the gentleman posting the pictures did in fact have permission to be on property, instead of merely reacting as you did.



A few years ago I had the opportunity to ride in the cab with an old hogger during a certain event involving a blue friend of ours. He was relating to another employee in the cab about the young man at the other end of the train who was insisting that needed to be able to complete a proper crossing signal with the less than adequate whistle he'd been given. The hogger went on to say that he had informed the young man that since his situation was less than desireable, he should just blow the whistle as best he good and they would get the point. The young man, unhappy with this answer, insisted he continue to try and do it by the book. The hogger told him, and I will never forget this, "I use to be an asshole like that once. Then I grew up."



I highly doubt there are people out there on the internet looking for details like this so they can vandalize it as it comes through their town. But hey, now that you've mentioned that idea, and I know where it's going thanks to the railroad posting it's itinerary, I think I'll go spell check that graffiti that's been added since it was loaded. Pretty sure that guy misspelled raise or paste or something. I won't know of course until I can illegally trespass when it gets here.



Check the last picture. A crime has already been committed. Seems to me the lack of his pictures didn't manage to stop it.

Think before you speak.

Mike S.

The problem here is by being on railway property and asking for permission from someone who cannot give it you have put that person and perhaps any other employee present at the time in jeopardy. With the new regime at CP it is even more serious. Some people just don't get it. Is it any wonder railroaders don't like FRN's?

I normally avoid such situations on these forums but in this case I will voice my opinion. First off, it is best to wait until you know the car has moved on to the home location before posting photos of it. The only reason I say this is that as a car owner and one who has moved cars for others, there are issues in each and every move, like making sure nothing is removed from the car while in transit. If you (and I will assume you did) had permission to take the photo, there are folks who might see that thing they have been looking for in the photo and go grab it since it’s right here. And yes I have had it happen to me before. I just had someone take a part off one of my locomotives, something you had to know what you wanted to get. Many car owners get uptight about them moving around and do not want the public to be around them. I know when my cars and locomotives move I have a “Stay away” attitude about it. A few years ago I was moving my “pet” locomotive and I took my truck and stayed right with it to where it was going, a fan climbed up and into the cab, I called RR police (They knew I was with the unit and had given me the number to get them) and went to the cab to find the gentleman removing the brake handles, I had already got his plate number from his car and I told him that the police had been called and I had his plate. He dropped the handles and tried to say “I thought the engine was on its way to the scrap yard” The engine in question was a restored RS-3. He also looked the part for a railroader. I guess the point I am trying to make is that just because you can does not mean you should. I agree that if the railroad lets you near it than its ok to look but please think of those who have put up the funds to save this stuff. Most fans will not even buy a ticket to ride a train yet alone buy the train! Personally I never trust rail fans ever. Much like railroaders they have sticky fingers around the equipment! And you don't want to take the blame for some thing gone missing.

As a quick point: You should have asked where it was going when you got permission to look. They had the paper work on hand I am sure.

JJ-

If I were to have a piece of equipment in transit I would want to see as many railfan pics of it as possible, so if there were problems it could help identify where those problems occurred.

When I was a CSX employee, one night my train had a dome car tacked on the tail end. So I had the jitney driver take me to the far end of the track at Parsons yard so I could get a good look at it, and when we got to Willard I looked it over again as I shoved it into the receiving yard. When I got home I emailed the car's owner with a brief message that their car as of such and such a time was at Willard with no apparent damage.

When historic equipment is out there on the general railroad system fending for itself, getting a confirmation that it still exists from time to time has to be a reassurance to the owner. It is too bad that some have decided to jump down the OP's throat for basically doing something that, had this been my car, I would have bought him a beer for.

Gentleman,

As I stated in earlier posts, I asked for and received permission to be where I was that day.

Now I will describe further: My permission came from both MOW and Road departments at two separate times during that day. If either had objected to my presence; I would have left.

I related this ongoing 'debate' to a friend who in fact works for a Class III. He stated quite succinctly: "any person in the employ of a railroad these days, would not stick their neck out and risk reprimand and/or dismissal just to give a lowly railfan permission to be on company property, if they didn't have the authority to do. One's livelihood / income is not worth the risk."

So it only goes to conclude that those employees who gave me the permission that I received, could in fact do so; or did so knowing it was not be an issue higher up the chain of command.

A simple polite "sorry, I can't" or even a terse "no", would have sent me on my way to a public grade crossing. Instead, I received a very welcome "Sure! We don't get many railfans here.." And a friendly conversation commenced.

Perhaps things are little more laid back in Canada.. I noticed people were a lot more polite and easy going than here in the States..

I cannot speak for those railfans who do not ask for permission, but I have a clear conscious.

And again, I asked for permission and received same to be where I was. More than once.

I will do it again, exactly the way I have been doing it. Asking for permission. A "no" is a no and a "yes" is a yes; and I will to continue to railfan on that basis.

Now, I have a polite request:
If some of you feel that what I have accomplished is an issue (re: "trespassing" is still trespassing even with permission and/or employees who don't have authority to give permission but do so; et al) and wish to "Monday Morning quarterback"; then can I politely suggest starting a new thread for that discussion?

Because in this thread I feel it is off topic. I started this thread to seek out information on an unusual movement and piece of vintage historical equipment I desired to learn about. And as I did not know where it was going, where it came from, I sought help here.

Identifying that passenger car and learning it's history. That is what this thread pertains to..

(I think this simple and polite request is fair enough...)

Postscript: because I have such a soft spot for these things, I sent a check for $25 towards the restoration of #382 to Moffat Road Museum today. If I had not seen that car and learned about it, I would never known it existed.

Have a great day all,

Well the car seems to have arrived in good order. Edit: size fixed.

Notice the side missing from the caboose. You could look right inside.


That's a great idea. I declare a new meme: photoshop the blimp into any photo where there might be a question...

I hope you had permission to take that photo from the train !
I met with Dave Naples a few weeks ago at the Moffat museum and looked at the car in detail and the caboose UP CA-1 2655 my caboose's (2615) nearest living relative Dave is similar to me in that he has boundless enthusiasm and is basically a one man show with the odd volunteer or two and way too much on his plate. But the car is potentially beautiful and has so much of its original interior left.
Its in good hands and please donate if you can.

My CA 2615 will go on display in Cheyenne in 8 days for a period of 2 weeks.

Mike Pannell

You THINK you joke. Sadly, to some crews' minds, you don't.

I had to sic Maryland state officials on new MARC contract operator Bombardier after one of their conductors tried to insist to me--in full defiance of publicly published MARC/MTA policy--that "you can't take pictures of or from MARC trains--Homeland Security....."