"I believe there were tax credits available for purchasing new diesels, these required that the trade-ins had to be cut up. "

Interesting-sounds like the blueprint for "cash for clunkers", which also had that requirement.

It's slowly being worked on at the Oregon Rail Heritage Center (the same place where SP #4449 is housed). The full story of how both PAs came back to the US can be found here: http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad. ... nIcon.aspx

The first case proved to be untrue. You are welcome to any of the Modesto Empire Traction 70-ton engines.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31892

The second one was true, an epic sacrifice to the fallacy of the broken window.

I think this is a misinformed expansion on the fact that Pielet Brothers, as a condition of being EMD's exclusive metal recycling yard, had an agreement with EMD that NOTHING locomotive related could be sold for reuse.

When Mr. Hansen was negotiating for the sale of the CB&Q E-5, EMD had to sign off on the deal.

I saw Doyle's PA recent in Portland. She has a lot of work yet to go, there's a lot of painted plywood in the carbody of the locomotive right now and I'm told he's a long way from having a running PA. I've also heard he no longer responds to people arguing he has some kind of duty to paint it as a AT&SF unit. It boils my blood that anyone has the nerve to tell him something like that. I say, "Get your own PA and paint it anyway you want!"This is a very good point. How often do you read online where someone is crying, "Someone ought to save..." a certain something. It's hard for me not to laugh at the unnamed "someone" who should have saved or preserved stuff. And when nobody steps up and said object meets the bulldozer or torch, then the same, the very same "someone" is vilified for not stepping in before that happened.
The funny part is that the person griping IS the very "someone" they're griping about! I've had this conversation more than once:
Fan: They're gonna scrap this thing. Someone should save it!
Me: Step up, buttercup. Where's your checkbook?
Fan: What, me? I don't have that kind of money!
Me: You said, "someone," and you look like a someone to me.
Fan: But... I meant someone else. I can't do it!
Me: Yeah. When this is scrapped and a fan later gripes about how someone should have saved it, I'll give them your number.

I think we may see the same case as the Alco PA coming up very shortly. According to many sources, Union Pacific is retiring ALL SD9043MACs, The remaining Dash 8s, and all ex CNW Dash 9s (Keep in mind 2 CNW Dash 9s are part of the "UP Heritage Fleet") There may and probably will be secondary uses for a few of the Dash 8s and Dash 9s, mainly on regionals who can utilize the 40/4400 HP provided by them. The SD9043MACs however, save for the ones on Indiana Railroad will most likely all go to scrap in the near future.

Union Pacific is better off than other class ones in terms of preservation (Donation of SD40-2 to IRM, SD40-2 to WARM, DDA40Xs, Etc.) So they seem to be more inclined to donate a locomotive or two. Is it a guarantee? Definitely a no, but the fact that certain railroads might retire some engines right into preservation is a plus.

This relates to the topic of the PA units mainly because of the SD9043MAC. The SD9043MAC is a unit that has almost no secondary uses, because of its Horsepower output and size. Many shortlines can be counted out of secondhand use just because of the size of the locomotive, just like the PA. The lack of a stable market for large, High HP units like the SD9043MAC, and the PA units back in their time, almost always result in situations such as this.

Preservation societies are just starting to move past locomotives from the 1st and second generation as candidates for preservation, and are starting to look at the 21/2 - 3rd generation of power, be it an SD40-2, B30-7, or anything else from that period. You then have locomotives, such as the SD9043MAC and C44-9W, from the mid to late 90s, being retired. Many societies will pass them off as too large or expensive. In the end preservation depends on someone, and that someone is YOU, not bill from down the road or your children when they are able to, but YOU.

Sorry for the partial rant there, but it is a hard truth that people need to accept. Want something saved? Don't wait for someone else to do it.

And much of that which is preserved may quickly end up being static displays only when proprietary electronics breaks down and is no longer supported.

Steve

"And much of that which is preserved may quickly end up being static displays only when proprietary electronics breaks down and is no longer supported. "

I'd bet that in 100 years, if there still are tourist/heritage lines, there will be more steam locomotives running than diesels.

I can't believe there are still people telling Doyle what to do with HIS locomotive that he's put his own blood, sweat, tears, and money into. I'd love to see a PA in ATSF warbonnet as much as the next person, there are a number of locomotives in ATSF red/silver warbonnet, both preserved and in service, for people to enjoy. To my knowledge, "NKP 190" is the ONLY passenger cab unit preserved in NKP "bluebird" colors.

I remember an initial conversation about 12 years ago on some board in which someone quoted Doyle as saying one of the factors in him restoring his PA as NKP 190 (besides "I want to and it's mine) was the prohibitive cost of replacing all the stainless-steel side panels which were long gone by the time he got it.

Weren't they in nearly new condition (as PA4's) when they went south? They sure didn't last long down there.

Steve

Remanufactured in Feb - May 1975 by Morrison-Knudsen as PA4's, They went south in 1978 after spending a brief time in MBTA Boston commuter service when D&H no longer needed them for passenger service. A combination of wrecks, derailments, and fires took their toll and they were all out of service by 1986, IIRC. #19 was the last one to operate in 1986. After 3 years, #19 was again restored to service, followed by #17 in the early '90s. #16 and #18 were stripped for parts to keep the other two operational.

Somebody made the point that the PA's looked great in just about every paint scheme they wore. In reflection, we are fortunate in a way, they came at the time railroads were using intricate and designer paint schemes which enhanced the strong, graceful lines of the big ALCO's.

Something that bothered me and I knew it was coming, was the commentary concerning the lack of other railroads preserving their PA's, "Oh yeah, why didn't you write a check?", something similar to "Put up or shut up!" It's really offensive to disallow somebodies statement when one considers that organizations have more money than most of we individuals. Yes, I know griping is cheaper and cleaner than scraping knuckles and opening the wallet, but geez! The context of the commentary should be taken in regard. The PA's disappeared while many of us were still in college or in our late teens. Now that many of us are geezers, or better yet, still working, perhaps someone can buy a scrap SD40, but if nobody does, hey, that's too bad. We do (or did) what was within our limits in the age.

News to me. Can anyone confirm or clarify?

One of the problems with the newer diesels is that they are mostly heavy 6-axle units, and many museum/tourist railway operations don't have the track to support them. As I recall, Illinois Ry. Museum has some 6-axle units, but I'm not sure how many run. OERM is currently doing extensive body work on Santa Fe 98, an FP 45 that will be restored to its original number 108.

Here's a question: Has anyone saved an EMD SW-1500? There are a few Alco C-415s preserved, but I'm not sure if any of them run.

Very recent thread on that topic here:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34877&hilit=sw1500

Bottom line, I believe the only one officially preserved is a former WP unit at Portola. Their resale value is still very high.