I think that this is the last heavyweight NYC dining car in existance. I would be happy to be proved wrong, however. Unlike most other railroads, the NYC effectively streamlined all of its main-line passenger operations (except for head-end equipment) by the mid 1950s and quickly retired its remaining heavyweight equipment or shifted them to company service or commuter service roles. This dining car only survived because the cash-strapped D&H found them to be a cost-effective replacement for their wood equipment.

This link shows the typical 1957 consist of the New York - Montreal Laurentian where the 151 would have been used.

http://www.banksofthesusquehanna.com/MMdandh.html

Two RPOs and two heavyweight coaches survive in the collection of the Leatherstocking Railway Historical Society:

http://www.lrhs.com/

The sole surviving Otto Kuhler designed "Worlds Fair" coach survives (barely) in a semi-abandoned state in Albany NY. This car is nationally significant as an example of pre-WWII streamlined passenger car design.

Tom Cornillie

What about this one in Syracuse, NY:

Is that one of the former J.E. Strates Shows heavyweight cars right of the D&H car in the photo?

D&H 229 in Syracuse is a heavyweight coach rebuilt with air conditioning, sealed windows. The port-hole doors emulate Kuhler's styling, and I suspect that this car was also rebuilt with a streamlined interior.

This car, too, could be part of a recreated 1950s D&H trainset.

The 1939/1940 ACF cars designed by Kuhler were lightweight cars.

Tom Cornillie

I understand that this diner was built in 1914 by Pullman as NYC No. 450, and rebuilt in 1936 by the NYC as No. 519. It as sold to the D&H in 1949.

Does anyone know more about the history of this car while it was at the New York Central? Did it have a name? Does it appear in any books on the NYC?

EH

More photos, taken last Saturday, December 2nd:

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?200 ... 467910.jpg

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?200 ... 065474.jpg

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?200 ... 001341.jpg

EH

Maybe this is the old gal's last gasp for help, but she made the February, 2007 issue of Railpace, p. 34.

EH

The CMRR is clearing its main line from the location of the Lion Gardiner, MP 5.4, to the Cornell Street shops, MP 3. The CMRR is also planning to move the fenceline in its Cornell Street shops to accomodate more storage capacity. This will be done over the summer, so it is likely the Lion Gardiner will be moved back to Cornell Street in the fall for a final assessment.

If no use can be found for the car by the CMRR or the ESRM, and if no one has expressed an interest in investing enough money to preserve the car from further deterioration, or has removed it by then, it will be "recycled", that is scrapped but every useful part saved for reuse. This would most likely be done over the winter of 2007/2008.

Those still interested in preserving or taking the car should contact me directly and I will put them in touch with Dakin Morehouse of the ESRM who is in charge of the ultimate disposition of the car.

EH

I thought I should post this update on the Lion Gardiner.

Plans are to bring the Lion Gardiner back to Kingston this winter so that it can be placed on a panel track in the Kingston Yard, which will be expanded this winter.

If there is any interest in restoring it, the car will remain on the panel track so that a potential restorer can stabilize the car until the resources are available to fully restore it.

If there is no interest in stabilizing the car for preservation, it will most likely be scrapped, though any items of value would be saved.

As the time comes closer to move this car and ultimately decide its fate, I will post more updates.

EH

let me bring a more optimistic view of museum building. the Western Railway Museum started with a cow pasture in 1960.

They liad tracks build a passenger loading stop and opened a book store. they aded electric and steam equipment to their collection.

they built a car barn, a Shop building and a second car barn. They bought a 22 mile railroad and are restoring it to full electric condition.

They have disposed of Diesel and other equipment better suited to other institutions and collections.

It takes some luck with fund raising and mostly care in how you spend what you have.

They are following the ARM Museum Reco
-mendations which make the museum atractive to the money giving folks.

At 47 things are looking pretty good; it takes work and a bit of luck! Now a new car barn means that all the historic equipment is indoors for the first time time in a long time.

There is much to restore and not enough craftsmen but we will do what we can when we can!

Ted Miles

let me bring a more optimistic view of museum building. the Western Railway Museum started with a cow pasture in 1960.

They liad tracks build a passenger loading stop and opened a book store. they aded electric and steam equipment to their collection.

they built a car barn, a Shop building and a second car barn. They bought a 22 mile railroad and are restoring it to full electric condition.

They have disposed of Diesel and other equipment better suited to other institutions and collections.

It takes some luck with fund raising and mostly care in how you spend what you have.

They are following the ARM Museum Reco
-mendations which make the museum atractive to the money giving folks.

At 47 things are looking pretty good; it takes work and a bit of luck! Now a new car barn means that all the historic equipment is indoors for the first time time in a long time.

There is much to restore and not enough craftsmen but we will do what we can when we can!

Ted Miles

And that could have happened to two pieces currently in the Western Railway Museum shop. Boxcar CCT 3001, the doors blew off it because the door sills were gone. Combine SN 1005 was crunched in a freight train. But 1005 was a beloved icon of WRM's early excursion days, and I don't know what saved the boxcar.

I hail from three museums, originally the Michigan Transit Museum, then the Southern Michigan Railroad Society, and I just got active with WRM. I don't think it's bragging to say WRM handles artifacts better than most.

But still. Recall an Ohio & Morenci Davenport 44-tonner recently discussed here a month ago. Still in private owner's hands, still at a steel mill and covered in rust. A friend said he wished it was in better hands, and I was speechless. While I agree with his sentiments, I thought to myself, "And who exactly would that be!?"

Both of my alma maters would have an interest in it, but neither one has fenced private land to tuck away eyesores or provide security - the unit is actually safer at the steel mill. IRM does, but again (if they'd take it) it'd be outdoors. Even if there was a hypothetically excellent Michigan museum with a collections policy like WRM, that's still no guarantee
http://www.girr.org/girr/relics/wrm/wrm.html
Five years after those photos were taken, all but the crane and tamper went indoors.

And that just makes all the difference, I think. It switches you from "can't repaint fast enough" to "Volunteers know their restoration efforts will last awhile."

And I must disagree on "don't make overly large plans." Daniel Burnham says quite the opposite, and I think he's right. Do, however, break your large plan into achievable chunks that you can get funded.

Update on this diner, from:
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 93&t=32599

EH says:

They have been pleading for 2 years now for someone to come forward and save this car. I noticed on the thread about the 565 that there is some kind of desire (or just grumbling?) to save the B&M diner at Steamtown. Sorry to say it but if these cars have lingered so long without anyone stepping forward I think the "train heaven" option is at hand.

I got a call from someone today who claims that the cutting up of the Lion Gardiner has begun.

I thought the car was buried pretty far in on the Catskill Mountain RR from any roads. Can anyone confirm if the scrapping has begun?