Folks, if you want to make changes at Steamtown, it's easy! Either come and help us or write your congress representative for the NPS and tell them you want them to fix Steamtown! Remember they are working on the same budget as the day they opened!!! Think about that for a minute. Do you still live on the same budget you did in the 80's?

Steve, quick tip, you should change the settings to allow people to view both Steamtown/Friends of Steamtown Facebook sites without having to login.

In defense of steam restoration, I know of several multi-year (decades?) traction restoration projects. The stuff just takes time.

Wesley

"There is an illusion, I think, about the capability of so few men employed in a such a large facility."


And there is no illusion about the capability of so few men employed in a small facility. Not only do they keep their engines running, but they keep other people's engines running as well.

Strasburg isn't a museum, but their stuff is museum quality.

@ Kelly, thanks for the info and for the kindness to share it. The criticism I express towards Steamtown is taken from the customers' side and thus fully justified, as a customer simply compares value for money.

There is no question restorations can take longer than expected, especially with smaller RRs relying on donations and volunteers. Yet, Steamtown has state paid staff and should have enough years of experience to be prepared before it runs out of steam, just as you do with your 7312.



No. Neither do we pay the entrance fees from the 80's at Scranton... ;-)

No need to feel offended personally, but if this temporarily out-phasing of steam is made by decisions "above" Scranton as I read between your lines, I like to know if these decisions have probably led to a shift in personnel towards office staff over the years which in consequence shortened the budget for the shop workers on locomotives?

In that respect, the time Baldwin 26 took in the shop may partially be the result of political correctness Strasburg is lucky not having to obey.
*I may be wrong*

Again, don't shoot the messenger, I Am Just Curious.

Mike

You know, I totally understand if anyone is disappointed with Steamtown. It probably hasn't lived up to most people's hopes or expectations. But I cannot understand the obvious and irrational hatred and anger. You're disappointed. Fine. I'm sorry you're disappointed. Don't ever go. But why in God's name would anyone expend their time and effort trying to tear down Steamtown? It's just like the 1361 haters... it's at the point where people want Steamtown to close up so they can feel smug about not being a fan of it, and they don't care if that means that the collection gets parted out or cut up.

Get some perspective, people. Seriously.

[quote="484Mike The criticism I express towards Steamtown is taken from the customers' side and thus fully justified, as a customer simply compares value for money. Mike[/quote]

But Mike, they don't sell the same product - how can you compare them? If you want to see a massive collection of rolling stock in a large site full of historic steam era railroad maintenance structures, you won't find that at Strasburg. If you want a short excursion on high quality well maintained tourist railroad that is about 99.9% guaranteed to be steam hauled, you won't look for that at Steamtown. You have only yourself to blame for expecting to find what's not for sale at any venue - try buying a car at your local pharmacy. Steamtown and Strasburg both are open about what they offer. Know what you want and take the appropriate choice to avoid disappointment.

dave

And considering the average visitor pays, what, $7 to go to Steamtown? If they raised prices in order to try and boost money to increase restorations, everyone would complain about that too.

Although I DO think they ought to have different classes of tickets for admission -- one of which includes a special 'extra' contribution specifically to help with restoration. (Might have some extra access privileges, or free stuff, included too)

Oh, that's easy:

See, I compare Strasburg then and now:
Service has gone up.

And I compare Scranton then and now:
Service has gone down, talking of steam, which always served as a major purpose for Scranton. It has never been declared a dead museum.




If I want to see a massive collection of dead steam in a structure which is as newly built as Scranton, I go on the other side of the street in Strasburg. The PRR museum, IIRC, never had the goal to perform steam itself, as they have a good neighbour..




Well - not nowadays, and precisely that is what makes me write these lines. I was quite satisfied indeed with the Scranton steam train not so perfectly equipped and clean, for in that respect it surely was closer to the average US steam train in the old days than the amish-restored Strasburg coaches.


Your metapher is running out of "steam", as pharmacies don't offer cars. Just help me out dave, what was the goal of Steamtown?



IIRC, Scranton did offer steam service over the years until now. And I am not disappointed at all: We saved time and money this year and went to another steam place this time instead. I just think it is fair to communicate why the museum, the book shop, the gas station, the restaurant and the hotel at Scranton didn't see us pulling out the master card this time.

I think I made quite clear what I want: Basically I want to know why the steam service in Scranton has declined. And I want to know if possibly the number/percentage of shop workers in Scranton has shifted towards less effective but nicer jobs over the years. Surely those men at the mills and lathes in Scranton do a good work, I just feel they should have more colleagues there at the cost of a few office jobs elsewhere in the site.

Mike

Mike, you need to understand the government. There is a hiring freeze. It's been in effect since Obama took office. Shop personnel have retired/left and haven't been replaced due to the freeze. So again, contact your state reps. They are the only ones who can fix that. Understand the shop personnel are hired under the federal employee rules. It's a long,ugly process. So you can't compare Strasburg with Steamtown. Mr Anderson gets to hire who he wants, when he wants. If business picks up Mr Anderson can hire temps to work during peak workloads. (Not sure if this is true) Steamtown doesn't have that option.

A question, Since when does Strasburg offer excursions? I know once upon a time the ran some trips but that was how long ago? Since, they operate over their 3.5 miles and make a mint doing so as a FOR PROFIT, PRIVATELY OWNED CORPORATION. Steamtown has consistently offered steam excursions out of town some 60 miles in total as a NOT FOR PROFIT. I guess my question is this, why in this thread have so many people made comparative statements regarding "excursions" when Strasburg does not operate "excursions".

A bit of insight, the 3713 is worked on solely (since late 2009 or so) by contractors as funding allows..... it is not funded by Steamtown though they help out here and there with consumables, tools, machinery.....etc. It is NOT a "Steamtown Project" despite the fact they own it and the rebuild is taking place in their shop. The project is the child of The Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley Railway Historical Society. You want to see the locomotive completed? Donate to http://www.project3713.com/ , it needs only $750,000 for completion. That's only about 1/5th of what it would take for the 611, just sayin.

Much goes on behind the scenes.....

Cheers, Jason

There are many structures at Steamtown. Most are historic. All require maintenance. Grounds require maintenance. I've been personally responsible for large industrial historic sites and can attest to the amount of time and money just keeping up with the wear and tear requires. Locomotives are cheap in comparison.

Ok, let's go back to 1940. Compare the Scranton shops with Strasburg. What's happening at either? Comparing the past at two very different places with the present at two very different places is still comparing two very different places, and all do better at different things at different times than others do.

OK, at least you are consistent in your irrationality. That's something......and music was better in the 1960s and 1970s but while we can't go back and see the Beatles in 1964 or attend Woodstock today, we can listen to the records to hear it like we listened to it then or use digital remasterings for better but less historically accurate reproduction of it today, which sounds ironically more like having been there than the "correct" vinyl LPs in the first place.

Times change and product lines change and expectations have to change with them all. Get over it.

Afboone, government cutbacks followed by rehiring have been common at various times in history, but the current batch is the latest of a practice that started during the Reagan administration, and has been continuing, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, ever since without the rehiring rebound. It isn't a recent invention.

dave

This is not the first time Steamtown has been steamless. There was a time a short while ago, within the past ten years that both the road engines were down. I believe one was down for maintenance and the other had mechanical issues. I don't recall such a large amount of whining then. Why now? The 26 is a stone's throw away from being completed compared to where it was just a year ago. Last I checked, six months ago it was in pieces around the shop building. Now it looks more like a locomotive.

Mark Yerkes also has a good point. The admission to the park is $7.00. That's cheap. For two people, admission to the museum and a short train ride is under $40.00 and it isn't a side of the road tourist trap either that Strasburg is quickly turning into again.

Steamtown has a bunch of talented people there. To me they are miracle workers because if you look at the scope of their work and the amount of ground they need to cover, it's nothing short of amazing. 3254 has had issues for more than just the past season. The fact that it had missed only a few trips in the past couple of seasons shows that the shop workers there were able to perform miracles.

Without getting into larger Steamtown debates, the biggest factor in the 26's overhaul is manpower.

As Steamtown train crew members (such as myself) have left for other opportunities over the years, they have not been replaced. There used to be 9 dedicated train service employees. Today only one remains.

To operate the trains on days where volunteers are scarce, the park has had to draw upon people from the locomotive shop, particularly monday-friday. This means repairs, rebuilding and preventative maintenance does not get done in a timely manner. There are a number of reasons that this train crew attrition has taken place but I'll let others debate that.

Has it taken too long to get the 26 out the door? In my oh-so-important-opinion, yes. I dropped the last fire on the 26 on a cold December evening some six months before I left Steamtown - and I've been gone almost 14 years.

Dave