The sub-letters indicate a variation to the floor plan. Some may be very minor while others may indicate changes in connecting doors, arrangement of restrooms, etc. A car could have changes made during its life and would then have a floor plan with a different sub-letter.

I have a copy of Pullman Company "List of Standard and Tourist Cars, No. 35, Issued November 15, 1950." This indicates that LAKE PEARL as being plan 3585; without sub-letter as other cars had.

Robert Wagner's The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars also indicates that LAKE PEARL was built to Plan 3585 under Lot 4725 (43 cars built August through October 1923). [Tom Madden's list says it went into service Oct. 12, 1923.]

William Kratville's Passenger Car Catalog is an interesting reference. I would rate it as being good for its era. It has floor plans and side elevation photos. But, if you look closely at some of the floor plans, you will find some that are put together by cut-and-past. My original copy feel apart at the binding after years of use; so when I found a nice copy a few years ago I bought it as a replacement.

I went back to Kratville's book to check the information... it is an interesting source, but confusing and contradictory at times in layout. It lists that lot number and name under a photo of plan 2585-D.... but on a previous page also lists the name series only with plan 3585..... Additional confusion.. VMT's info had the car listed as built in 1926, which would have put it in a different lot #

I certainly didn't intend an "one up-manship", simply if Jeff was still at the Newberry today he could check the other plan number.

I was wrong about October of 1923 being too late for 2xxx number plans; turns out late 1923 was right of the cusp of the new 3xxx series plans; Lot 4725 being one of the first lots constructed. I'm certainly no expert on Pullman cars, but in general the change in the series of plan numbers reflected a semi major redesign of the basic carbody... it became one foot longer, among other things. Traditional floor plans, like the Plan 2410 12 sec. 1 dr. car just ratcheted up a thousand and became Plan 3410. Other newly created plan numbers started from there.

So that's the difference between 2xxx-series and 3xxx-series Pullman Plans! I never knew the reason for the change in series. There are some heavyweight Pullmans whose Plans are in the 4xxx-series (the "Little"-series cars, for example). The first all-steel heavyweight Pullman*, the "Jamestown" (later renamed to "Talisman" and finally "Middletown") was built to Plan #1963E, the only such all-steel heavyweight Pullman with a Plan in the 1xxx-series. I suppose (judging by the "E" letter variant on the "Jamestown") that earlier steel-wood heavyweight Pullmans were numbered in the 1xxx-series and possibly earlier 2xxx-series Plans as well.

As far as lightweight sleepers are concerned, cars constructed by Pullman-Standard had Plans in the 4xxx-series, and occasionally in the 6xxx-series (this applies to rebuilds only, the AT&SF "Indian"-series, for example). Cars constructed by the Budd Company had Plans in the 95xx-series, while cars constructed by American Car & Foundry had Plans in the 90xx-series, with one group of rebuilt cars in the 6xxx-series as well (the UP "Sun"-series, rebuilt in 1965 from the "Western"-series). There are no lightweight sleepers constructed by St. Louis Car Company or Canadian manufacturers listed in the CCR database, so I don't know the Plan series used for Canadian sleepers.

7xxx-series Plans were used for other types of lightweight cars (coaches, diners, lounges, etc.) constructed by P-S starting in the 1930's. As far as I know, 7xxx-series Plans were not applied to cars constructed by Budd, AC&F, or StLCCo, although without access to a copy of W. David Randall's Passenger Car Library, I cannot be certain. What I have read is that any car that had Pullman Company employees onboard while in revenue service was assigned a Pullman Plan, so logically, cars built by the other manufacturers would have had Pullman Plans.

*I'm referencing Tom Madden's CCR spreadsheet database

The other major revision which I believe was introduced concurrently was a redesign of the end framing. Early steel Pullmans retained the graceful arched end fascia of their wooden predecessors, shown here on CORYDON at OERM (built 1917):

http://www.oerm.org/sites/default/files ... 010_sm.jpg

The 3xxx plan series cars all had a revised end, illustrated here on the DOVER STRAIT at IRM:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3216574

I've never delved too deeply into the reason for the change, but I suspect raising the eave line of the central portion of the roof made room for more substantial anchorage of the top of the posts flanking the vestibule opening.

Unfortunately this is not a reliable spotting feature, because Pullman actively revised the ends on older plan 2xxx series cars when they needed major shopping. The INGLEHOME at IRM (built 1910) has the revision on its vestibule end. The floor level platform the INGLEHOME is often displayed alongside provides a good vantage point to study the end revision; the fit-up of the new sheet metal work is just a bit more crude than I would have expected.

Another difference between older and newer steel Pullmans is in the belt rail construction; older cars use a half-round pressed-steel belt rail, while newer cars use what appears to be heavy rolled section, with a stepped cross-section and rivets through at least one of the "steps". Some cars have two rows of rivets, one per "step".

There were differences in the side sill configuration that co-incided with the old/new belt rail changes. The older cars have a horizontal "s" stamped steel side sill, more susceptible to corrosion damage.

A steel Pullman is not as "standard" as one might think!

Howard P.

As is typical with anything with a twenty five year production run. The framing of the original cars with the fake scribed sheathing was practically experimental; no one had built a steel framed car before. When Pullman re-sheathed them they made modifications, adaptations to bring them closer to the current production, but differences remained. Luckily there is so much Pullman info preserved, the drawings for the modifications may well still exist.

IRM has the builder's files. Modifications are not likely to be found there unless the car was returned to the factory for re-building (more likely with railroad owned cars than with a Pullman.) The Newberry has the Pullman maintenance files.

My thanks to everyone who has responded to this topic, whether by posts or private messages. We are now slowly finding out the info that we need, and have many possible new avenues to research.

Special thanks to Ted & Olin at the IRM Pullman Library, Jeff for spending an afternoon in Chicago being nosey at the Newberry, Katie & Trevor at the TVRM Archive for finding historic photos, Nick at RMPA for the shots of one of their Pullmans, and Mike at the TVRM Passenger Car Dept. for researching repro materials. Support like this is the great thing about RYPN