Beyer Peacock must have had some interest in selling to North America. In Robert D. Turners book "Logging By Rail, the British Columbia Story" there is mention of a 1934 ad placed in "The BC Lumberman" magazine promoting Garratt locomotives for use on logging railways. The ad shows a photo of one of the standard guage industrial 0-4-0+0-4-0's built for use in Britain. Of course it would have been far easier for Beyer Peacock to sell directly into Canada at that point than into the US. While I don't think they would have been terribly well suited for use on logging railways, I can think of a few applications here in Canada where they would have found light rail, with winding heavy grades, such as the CPR's Kettle Valley Railway, or the Pacific Great Eastern. However, I find it interesting that generally speaking Garratts found their greatest success in warmer climates. The steam circuit to the cylinders on the "rear" unit can be tremendously long, far longer than on other articulated types. I wonder if this would have hampered their efficiency in climates which are often sub zero to the extent that they would be innefficient compared to more conventional locomotives. I have personally seen an unbelievable amount of water coming out of a Garratt on a very cold South African morning.
P. Hosford

FWIW I understand that the NSW AD60 Garratt is essentially a slightly modified South African GMaM - others may like to confirm.

The likely ultimate Garratt designed but never built would one of the last designed in the late 1950's.
Design operation:
1,800 tonnes at 20 mph on a 1.5 per cent grade.

Details from B-P drawings:
Engine units 4-8-4
Maximum axle load 27 long tons
Length overall 122 ft
Fuel oil capacity 3,400 imp gallons
Water capacity 10,500 imp gallons on loco
Total heating surface 6,200 sq ft
Grate area 105 sq ft
Boiler diameter 8' 6"
Estimated loco weight 352 tonnes
Tractive effort 115,000 lb

Would this be classed as up to US simple expansion Mallet standards on standard gauge?


The design was to be the East African Railways and Harbours 61 Class, with the loco designed for metre gauge track!!!

Just an interesting snippet.

Bruce

Not sure I'd agree with that statement for two reasons

GMA/M is a double mountain, AD60 is a double northern

GMA/M was conceived from 1954 see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Afri ... -2%2B2-8-4

AD60 was conceived from 1949 see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_ ... locomotive

A few years I whipped this up, just to see what it might look like..
Lima and Erie get together for a Berkshire Garratt:



Scot

Cool, but that's the wrong design of two-axle truck for a variety of reasons. That truck is articulated in the original... but not here; it does not have to hold up a firebox or carry an outboard booster; its equalization needs to be different; the swing angle for guiding is wrong. And the boiler cradle frame overhang will be an issue with the truck's outside frame as drawn...

You'd be better off duplicating the lead truck under the back end of the chassis (making it a 2-8-2 of otherwise Berkshirely dimensions) -- that would give more weight on drivers, fewer carrying axles, etc. Would certainly be interesting...

Now, for your next trick ... how about a double 2-8-8-2 in N&W paint... <ducks for cover>

Interesting, maybe this is one for the thread on what you would build as an ultimate steam engine. Maybe it needs a little refining but its thought provoking.

Here's one I drew up a few years ago, a Chinese "double QJ". Such a locomotive was seriously contemplated for construction in China in the 1980's according to David Wardale's book "the Red Devil".

Regarding this older thread I recently ran across this paragraph in the late Omer Lavallee's excellent book "Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives" (Railfare 1985). In the chapter about Chief of Motive Power Charles Henry Temple, who served from 1921 to 1928, the book states: "At about this time the CPR considered acquiring locomotives of the Beyer Garratt design, reportedly to be used in freight service between Montreal and the Atlantic seaboard at Saint John NB. This design, never used in North America but common elsewhere in the world, is said to have been considered because of the personal friendship of Sir Sam Fay with CPR chairman and president Edward W. Beatty. Fay was chairman of Beyer Peacock of Manchester England, owners of the Garratt patents and manufacturers of these impressive locomotives. The sight of a Canadian Pacific Garratt on Ship Pond Viaduct must, unfortunately remain forever in the imagination." Indeed a Garratt with the "CPR look" would have been a fantastic thing.

P. Hosford

For North America, take a look again at those fictional examples. Compared to an articulated, each has one extra pair of flexible steam couplings, and an extra pony/trailing truck.

More pieces to maintain, when as we noted the loading gauge in North America solved the Garratt's other advantage of boiler dimension.

But the Garratt does away with the tender, which is of similar complexity to a couple of additional trucks.

The US loading gauge made boiler dimensions less of a problem than in some other places, but a Garratt would still have allowed an even larger boiler with a deep firebox and ample ashpan, two things that were restricted on big articulated locomotives despite our generous loading gauge.

D&RGW had planned 3 ft 2-8-8-2's in the works, but never came to fruition .



I am planning a semi-freelance 3 foot 2-8-8-2 HO kitbash.

There were two 3'-gauge Bayer-Garratts built for use in Colombia. These had knuckle couplers and even a circular number plate on the end of the bunker.

Several other railroads in South America that had British management or CMOs also used Bayer-Garratts.

I am told that the SP once prepared a concept elevation of a Bayer-Garratt. Person who reported this to me said it had a cab (like a cab-forward) on the end of the bunker. Maybe they were going to use a throttle system that was tried on the PRR in the 1920s using Westinghouse Electric MU type controls.

When I visited the Puffing Billy railway near Melbourne, Australia in 2001, they were working on a 30" gauge 2-6-0+0-6-2 69 ton Garratt. I understand it's now running, but it probably runs only on special occasions. Any recent news on this rare beast?

Google "Garratt G42" for quite a bit.

But in much more recent news, this railway has bought one of the NGG 16s -- THAT is going to be interesting to watch!

"But in much more recent news, this railway has bought one of the NGG 16s -- THAT is going to be interesting to watch!"

The Puffing Billy Railway has two NG/G16 loco's, numbers 127 and 129.

One is progressing well towards operating condition which includes re-gauging to 2' 6" from 2 foot.

G42 their other Garratt is in regular service and generally hauls the heavily loaded lunch train on Sunday's.

Because of the proximity of the PBR to the growing metropolis of Melbourne, and ever growing ridership numbers, these Garratt's are considered the backbone of future steam operations on the railway.