East Broad Top news

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

dinwitty wrote:

it sounds very impressive, EBT may be re-goaling their line with the preservation society

Or the "Preservation Association" could be a scam.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:42 pm

1361prr wrote:

And the taxpayers get screwed again, all so that the foamers and Salone can have their jollies at the expense of others. Ho hum.

The problem with this sweeping generalization--we don't truly know the details of the monies involved, now, do we?--is that we could just as easily apply it to every ISTEA, TEA-21, and whatever other government-money grant applied to anything in the railroad preservation field.

State railroad museums in California, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania? "Pork barrel." Steamtown? "Pork barrel." A TEA-21 grant to beautify a station area, or refit a coach for handicapped access? "Pork Barrel." Converting a disused station to the local police station? "Pork barrel."

Government grant applications have always been an exercise in salesmanship, creative writing, and even a bit of "hornswoggling" the public to your point of view. I blame the process and its enablers, not those that use it to their advantage--because, occasionally, WE win.

Something about this particular mission sure "smells" to me. But at the same time, we've been wringing our hands for thirty-plus years for "somebody" to do "something" to save this line. I'm not actively hoping for this mission to "come to grief," but are you advancing an alternative that works?

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

The problem with this sweeping generalization--we don't truly know the details of the monies involved, now, do we?--is that we could just as easily apply it to every ISTEA, TEA-21, and whatever other government-money grant applied to anything in the railroad preservation field.

I disagree, Alexander - if it involves public money, we can indeed truly know the details. All we have to do is read the details of the grant program that is funding the project.... when I do that, I end up concluding that something doesn't smell right.

Here is the link to a 2/24/2012 Press Release titled "East Broad Top Railroad to Receive $2 Million State Grant to Fund Improvement Project, Says Fleck" that is still posted on State Representative Mike Fleck's website.

And here is the link to PennDOT's page on Rail Freight Funding Programs. The grant that Rep. Mike Fleck announced appears to be from the Rail TAP program since that program requires a state representative or senator to get the grantee a line item, per this quote from that page:

Quote:

The Rail Transportation Assistance Program (Rail TAP), otherwise known as Capital Budget, is available to those having a line item in the current Capital Budget Bill. For those who do not have a line item, please contact your local representative or senator to secure a line item. The project can be funded up to 70 percent of the total project costs, not to exceed the amount of the line item. The final grant award will be based upon actual bid costs or agreed upon prices if work is to be performed by your own labor forces.

Both rail funding programs have become very competitive and not all applications will receive funding.

The page also explains what Rail TAP (Capital Budget) grants can be spent on:

Quote:

Capital Budget (construction projects ): Consist of the cost to purchase ties, rail, ballast, other track materials, and structural materials in sufficient quantity to construct a railroad line (where none exists) or a rail associated facility to a level necessary for the operation or use, and has an estimated useful life in excess of five years, but does not include acquisition cost of land, rights of land, buildings or building materials to construct a new building.

Below is the 2/24/2012 Press Release, in case it disappears from the Representative's website.... note how Rep. Fleck stated (in his fourth paragraph) that the money would be used to acquire land & right-of-way, but the PennDOT page (quoted above) says that their grant money cannot be used for that.

Quote:

East Broad Top Railroad to Receive $2 Million State Grant to Fund Improvement Project, Says Fleck
2/24/2012
HARRISBURG – A major improvement project to enhance the operation of the East Broad Top Railroad (EBT) will move forward with the help of a $2 million state grant, Rep. Mike Fleck (R-Huntingdon/Blair/Mifflin) announced today. The grant was approved Thursday by the State Transportation Commission as part of a $23 million state investment in 16 freight-rail improvement projects across the Commonwealth.

“I am pleased and excited that the EBT Railroad has been approved to receive this substantial state grant,” said Fleck. “For the last several years, many people have worked very hard on this project and it is gratifying to slowly, but surely, see everything come together.”

The grants are distributed through the Capital Budget/Transportation Assistance Program and leverage $10 million in local investments. Authorized by the General Assembly, the grants are administered by PennDOT’s Bureau of Rail Freight, Ports and Waterways.

The $2 million state EBT grant will go toward the acquisition of land and right-of-way, rehabilitation of existing track, construction of new track and construction of a transload facility in phase one of a project to extend the historic rail line from Rockhill to Mt. Union.

Last year, EBT received a $1 million grant through the state’s Redevelopment Assistance Capital Project program (RACP). The grant was awarded by former Gov. Ed Rendell in 2010 and then reviewed and released by Gov. Tom Corbett.

“The revitalization of the East Broad Top line into the Mount Union Industrial park will create jobs and spur economic growth in the southern end of Huntingdon County,” said Fleck. “It is also a major investment in local tourism, which is the county’s second largest industry. I continue to be a strong supporter of the EBT project because of its great economic potential for the entire region.”

The East Broad Top Railroad Preservation Association has been the railroad’s general manager since 2009. The nonprofit organization is working to acquire the railroad and reactivate all 33 miles of its original main line. The EBT Railroad is the last functioning narrow gauge railroad east of the Mississippi River and has been classified as a national historic treasure.

For more information on Fleck and his legislative priorities visit RepFleck.com or
Facebook.com/RepFleck.

State Representative Mike Fleck
81st District, Pennsylvania House of Representatives
Media Contact: Andy Briggs
abriggs@pahousegop.com
717.260.6474

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:11 am

I have/mean no defense of Salome or the EBT project or the politicians involved......

.... but it's still entirely possible that the project is set up for Salome/whoever's 30% or more to involve the acquisition, and the state grant to cover the up-to-70% that involves the track rehab and construction. That could be perfectly legal. Good government policy, I dunno, but if someone proposed to buy up a short line or branch that was threatened with closure or abandonment most places in the U.S. these days, an offer of "I'll buy it if you guys give me fix-up money" would get a lot of politicians falling over themselves to see that deal through. Elsewhere all over Pennsylvania, the Commonwealth (Lackawaxen & Stourbridge, Gettysburg, etc.) or local government (the SEDA-COG "Robey Empire, etc.) has had to buy the track and be stuck holding it! And we know the state has toyed with buying the EBT a generation ago, only to be rebuffed by the owners.

I didn't say we CAN'T know the details, only that we and the ones crying "Taxpayer rip-off!" did not, at the time of those accusations, have the details in hand. Thanks to Brother Webster's research, we now have more than we did.

I am willing to raise the specter that this conflict between the press release and the terms in the PennDOT website regarding that program could be simply due to sloppy writing, inadequate information sloppily given to a PR hack, or a simple misunderstanding, rather than malicious fraud. The entire program raises serious questions having little or nothing to do with actual rail preservation, but to use this as cause to instantly condemn this potential "savior" of the EBT seems a tad overboard and spiteful.

You got a better way to save the EBT? A winning lottery ticket and magic potion to make the current owners fall in love with anything you propose? Something actually grounded in reality? I'm all ears. Let's hear it.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

The preservation society is what EBT needs, the owner apparently selling it, as progress goes things may settle down the right way. I don't see abandonement at all. The society surely won't have that, getting government attention/funds may aid its survival and prevent highway takeovers.

lbiemiller · **Posted:** Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:16 pm

I have to point out that the so-called "preservation association" consists of just one person, Larry Salone. He is its president and its one board member. An organization that had a real board—several members with diverse skills, let's say, and a reasonable expectation of transparency and public accountability (in return for tax-exempt status)—would reassure more of the EBT's loyal followers.

—Lawrence Biemiller

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

what about all the other people working with the EBT?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:00 am

dinwitty wrote:

what about all the other people working with the EBT?

In short:
DO NOT confuse this "East Broad Top Preservation Association" with the "Friends of the EBT."

The former, as cited, is so far one individual. The latter is a long-established enthusiast group, which has, among other activities, been doing stabilization hither and yon on various EBT buildings, set up a museum in the Robertsdale station, etc.

No relationship yet exists between the two groups, as far as we know. None. And I wonder if anyone outside the central Pa. rail preservation fraternity has confused the two, or mistaken the former to be the latter. It already seems to be happening in this thread, and "we're" supposed to be the ones that know this stuff.

Ed Kapuscinski · **Posted:** Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:46 am

If no relationship exists, I'd highly recommend the FEBT get out well ahead of that confusion with their messaging.

The CRHS (Conrail Historical Society) still has to deal with a perceived relationship with the long defunct and questionably ethical CRTS (Conrail Technical Society) that burned a bunch of people 10 years ago.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

Here's an update on four-term Pennsylvania State Representative Mike Fleck, who back in February 2012 announced that the EBT had received $2 Million in state funding, per the 2/24/2012 Press Release titled "East Broad Top Railroad to Receive $2 Million State Grant to Fund Improvement Project, Says Fleck" that is still posted on his website.

In May of this year, Fleck lost his party's primary election to a write-in candidate. However, Fleck is still on the ballot of today's general election because he won the other party's primary election by 15 votes. In case anyone wants to know more the primary election, here's a May 2014 newspaper article: Rep. Mike Fleck, state's first openly gay legislator, loses GOP nomination but will still be on the ballot this fall

In short: The one elected politician who had actually announced grant money for the EBT may lose today's election. I don't know if his opponent has taken any positions about the EBT.

Dave · **Posted:** Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:16 pm

I wish my state were so flexibly partisan. We seem to specialize in division. Best wishes.

dave

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

PA State Rep. Mike Fleck lost yesterday's election: Centre Daily Times - Richard Irvin unseats Rep. Mike Fleck in 81st House District