When you look at the New England Steam Company's website compared to the "Build a PRR T1" website there is simply no comparison. NESCo gives enough information and confidence to make a casual visitor comfortable that they are not a bunch of wild eyed kooks but a serious effort.

The fact that they have agreements to operate on the Maine Eastern and Downeast and PanAm will move it tells me these guys have done their homework.

Perhaps an offer should be made to have 470 be brought back to town from time to time for display or even possibly demonstration operation? More people would see it that way then will ever see it now.

What Shemp doesn't want to recollect is the City of Waterville has had title to 470 for over fifty years. During that time:

-not a penny was used to protect the engine, fence or otherwise
-vandalism
-benign neglect
-any "sprucing up" of the engine was done by volunteers
-asbestos remediation done with donations

This is not the first time Waterville has sold off historic artifacts. Recall the plane at Waterville Airport that was there. Its now gone. The City owned it and couldn't maintain it.

This group was selected from six other candidates, all of the others out of state. It appears this is the best option for all concerned.

Richard my memory is fine. And you can watch the minutes back if you like. They are available. And no one is looking to argue. It is merely a debate about the future of the 470. Surely you are willing to debate without arguing. I would love to see you get that 470 running so I could take my children or grandchildren on a ride someday. Specifically a scenic ride. But will it really happen?

I have always wanted a 40 ford. I found one in great shape for $1500. It was going to cost another $20k to get it the way I wanted it. I dont have the money or time so I didnt purchase the car. Do you have the money and time. Will you have the money or time in next five years. We are just afraid the 470 will be taken apart and not put back together unless you have money and time and are ready to work on it immediately.

Regardless of you opinion or the current state of the 470, many people in the area have an attachment to the 470 and the tank just down the street and seeing either one leave would be tough. There is nothing wrong with what you are trying to do. In fact I think it is a great idea. But if you do not have a solid plan then I think we should keep it, paint it and restore it at a later date.

I feel like you should have funding secured prior to buying the 470, not trying to get funding after you buy it. Ask the Young Marines in Waterville how that plan worked out at Harris Bakery. Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you get the funding you need.

Diningcartim, I think offering to bring the 470 back for visits is a great idea and would help win over those Waterville citizens with an emotional attachment to the 470. This was brought up at the meeting last night and there was no definitive answer that it would ever return more of a maybe that could work. Also it was mentioned that the restoration could take ten years to finish. Is this correct? Don't think Im against the 470 being restored. Im against the 470 being sold dismantled scrapped or moved out of state. Before that happens we should just sandblast it, make some repairs, and paint it. Put a fence around it and call it good. That wouldn't cost that much relatively speaking.

Dear Semp,

I would like for you to take a few minutes to go visit a few web sites. One of them being our group http://www.americansteamrailroad.org and our facebook page http://www.facebook.com/americansteam

Another would be the http://www.765.org page which is a group that has been running 765 for over 41 years and has been through three major overhauls with there locomotive.

I'll use our group for this reply. American Steam Railroad was formed in 2005 without even a project on the books or even where we were going to find a locomotive to restore. We took the time and searched for a locomotive to restore for a few years while waiting on the IRS to grant us our non-profit 501c3 status. In 2007 our tax exempt status came in from the IRS. In 2008 after a long search 1352 was found and our group signed a contract with the owner stating we would pay him 25K for his locomotive.

At the time as a group we only had 1k in bank to start the organization. Advance the clock a few years and in 2010 we raised all of the funds through private donations without any grants or foundation support to allow our group to become the owners of Frisco Mike 1352. We considered this phase completed which was the purchase of the locomotive.

We then moved on to finding the proper home to do the restoration for the locomotive. In 2011 a deal was struck for 1352 to be move to the 1905 roundhouse in the Flats of Cleveland Ohio. Along the way a partnership with Midwest Railway Preservation Society was born and now 1352 there engine 4070 will be rebuilt in the same facility.

It's 2013 and we are fundraising a 100K for the move of the locomotive from Illinois to Ohio which is going well and we are receiving good responses both from railroad community and the general public.

My point being is you need to understand how our industry works. Our industry is built on sweat equity, long hours and people who care to see the project through. I would say our industry has had more locomotives running over the years then locomotives not running.

What you do not see in the background is a very good support system of people who we can be called on and also contractors who jobs are to support locomotives for a fee to the groups who need help restoring there locomotives to make sure its done right.

I truly feel you need to take a few minutes to Google Steam Locomotive 765, 2926, 3751, 1352, 4070, 1630, 700, 4449 are all run by volunteers or museums full of volunteers who run steam locomotives very well on a regular bases. If MEC 470 group is looking to restore her to operating status and needs help few phone calls can go out and the proper people would show up to help the cause.

MEC 470 is one locomotive that needs a good home and if the report is correct about her mechanical status of being restored to full service I'm all for that. My personal opinion is why not give the locomotive a good start by selling for 1 buck to the group instead of 25K. This would allow the group to apply there fundraising efforts into restoration of the locomotive instead of purchase of the locomotive.

Best Regards,

Steven M Harvey
American Steam Railroad
President

Without passing any judgment on the merits, or lack thereof, of any 470 proposal, I'll add this:

You are more likely to get a positive response towards donation when you have moved the loco to a restoration shop than you are just leaving it there on its plinth.

We all probably understand the dilemma of chicken-or-egg, i.e. "how dare we start a project without enough money in hand to see it through"... But no one has due cause to donate until they see at least some token action, be it a formal lease-signing ceremony, a hand-off of "the keys," or whatever. For many, that's the loco moving somewhere else.

Yes, this strategy has problems. We've all seen certain locos languish awaiting funds or donations: LIRR 39 and PRR 460 at Strasburg, N&W 611 at Roanoke, B&M 3713 at Steamtown, etc. But experience shows the numbers would look far worse if we left it to "sit there" until the money was there. If we sat there with a donation box awaiting enough donations, PRR 1361 might STILL be rusting away at the Horse Shoe Curve. (Not that the status at the moment is much better, but still, if you think 470 looks bad, you should have seen 1361 up there.....)

I've seen one other loco where they're leaving it "parked" until they raise the funds. Last I actually heard a number, in fourteen years they've raised about $18,000 in the bank.....

The most impressive part of the proposal is the agreement with local railroads to run 470 once restored. the idea that they are starting with the program and then working back through the hardware reflects a level of reason and maturity I don't usually see in steam restoration proposals. That's more of an impediment than any amount of mechanical work. Their program isn't just "save one locomotive," it's about building a regional operating program that also saves a locomotive. I'd much rather sontribute to this than an open ended "if we restore it we'll probably find a place to run it" proposal.

dave

And so, I imagine, would big-dollar "angel" benefactors and underwriters.

History lesson:
Until very recently discussion had centered on a lease as opposed to a purchase.
As you can imagine the difference between a lease agreement and a purchase has a tremendous impact on a business plan (aka fund raising)

In addition its simply un-ethical to seek grants and funding for restoration if you do not have an agreement. NESCO has held true to this ethic.

One thing to keep in mind is just one person getting hurt will cost the City far more than $25,000.00. If you think $5,000.00 and a quick coat of paint by a an Eagle Scout is going to render the locomotive safe for the public or reverse the deterioration than you are sadly mistaken.

The short of it is that the City of Waterville has had ample time to address this issue and has made attempts - the latest was a citizens initiative which fizzled. This time they tendered an RFP and received responses and have been in negotiations with NESCO for over a year.

NESCO's goal is to bring mainline steam back to Maine. While the 470 is a prime candidate that does not mean that she is the only candidate and I am sure that should they experience continued delay and dithering I would not be surprised if they walk and leave Waterville with a wonderful and potentially expensive liability and embarrassment.


Semp,
I have most of what they need to restore Waterville's "tank" (Lombard tractor) to operating condition. But I think I will wait a bit on that... you have the Boy Scouts.

Terry, when I said the tank in Waterville I didn't mean the lombard tractor. I literally meant the tank outside the american legion. See Waterville has many treasures it just lacks funding. Betwern Colby College, Thomas College and other area businesses, and grants there has to be a way to keep these great pieces of history here.

Terry, Also I never said anything about eagle scouts painting the 470. That was a different citizen that I do not know. I own a construction company in town and know what it would take money wise to keep people off the 470 and freshen up the paint job. I know nothing about restoring trains nor do I want to. I just think it is a part of our town and I dont understand why that makes you so upset. yes it has been neglected but only because the city failed to allocate funds and assign a custodian. they failed the people of our town. im not looking to argue or hurl insults. I want to debate the future of the 470. it doesnt belong to you yet. its still ours for now. I am looking to keep people coming to our town not leave. I have no interest in anything else. its business

Article about last nights meeting

http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/Council_moves_closer_to_sale_of_Waterville_s_Old_470_steam_locomotive_.html?pagenum=1

If the engine still has abestos on it (in the insulation jacket) it needs to be taken care of as pronto as possible. Thats going to be a high priority, paint job or restoration.
Its quite obvious the sentimental attachement to the engine and thats fine.
It means people care about the engine including the City. As far as donation fundraising goes the New England group can set up donations right now to purchase the engine and set the situation for restoration. 765 was a continuous ongoing deal (or ordeal), work kept going, donations kept ringing and, and the job got done. This took 4 years of mostly saturdays, and the group was (is) a talented group of people who know what they want to do with the mad skills behind it to accomplish it. Money is money, but people behind it is far more important, or nothing gets done.

cheers

Chris,

I didn't realize that Waterville had a tank in addition to the Lombard. I will have to check it out next time I come through. Thank you for the info.

I understand yours and other peoples passion to keep the 470 in Waterville, It has been a fixture of the city for many, many years - its like an old friend - I remember when the State museum acquired the Lombard tractor that use to sit in the field at Churchill Lake - That was "my" Lombard - I played on it as a kid. Now when I take my daughter and youth groups to the museum I tell them of how I use to sit in the cab and pretend - its still an old friend and I am part of its history. No matter what the city's connection to the 470 will always be part of its history too.

I greatly appreciate the role the city of Waterville played in preserving the 470 to date. Back when it was offered by MEC it would have been very easy for the 470 to be scrapped. I am thankful for their foresight.

Now is an opportunity to not only benefit the City of Waterville but the state of Maine as a whole not only in economic terms but in utilizing the 470 coupled with a well developed steam and educational outreach program to act as an ambassador to our state and more importantly provide a living history and unique educational experience to our youth - culture, history, science, physics and technology.

I too hope that you and your kids can ride the 470 and I hope that you will become involved and help make this happen.

Best regards,


Terry Harper

A comment I never want to hear...

"we used to play around 470 as a kid, took picture, had picnics, now its scrapped, how'd that happen?"

Be more fun if you can say it was restored and you can ride behind it! That a kick in the happiness meter.

cheers