Dennis -

If I recall correctly, the Shop Building just to the south of the Administration Building was supposed to be part of the preserved complex. This would have been the place to display a few pieces of PULLMAN equipment. There is sure enough stuff out there where a fair sampling could have been displayed for visitors. This Shop wing was in very bad shape and I am not sure that it is still in existence. However, the Administration Building itself had a disastrous fire a number of years ago and was rebuilt, so the Shop Building wing could also be replicated.

Although the story of the Pullman Porters is an interesting one, it actually did not occur at the location of Pullman at all, but on the trains themselves. So this makes no sense to include within the Pullman site, although I guess there is a building within the districts limits that apparently does address it.

Your mention of a "workers paradise" is interesting. I don't think this was ever considered by the Pullman employees as any kind of a "paradise". It was, however, a planned community that George Pullman tried to set up for his employees.

The Shop wings off of the Administration Building and the additional shop complexes that were built on the property as production increased through the years, was where the Pullman Company built much of their equipment. From wooden passenger cars right on up to Amtrak equipment; streetcars, freight equipment, etc. To have a Pullman site with no examples of this equipment, makes no sense to me. It's like having the Ford Museum without a Ford automobile. Or an air museum without airplanes.

Les

Its been a while however, on Thursday the Pullman District will be designated a national historic park. Here is the local SunTimes article

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicag ... obama-rahm

Mind you to disregard the politics in the paper.

I live in Chicago and I've been to Pullman a few times for the tours etc. over the years. I love history and old buildings. It certainly is an interesting place and of course Pullman the man, the company and the place are fascinating subjects.

But OMG - this will never be Colonial Williamsburg.

My understanding is that the Nat. Park Service will put very little money into it and the hope is to revitalize the area through tourism. This has more to do with bad attempts at economic development and less to do with historical preservation. This is a very dangerous area. People are routinely shot and killed in this area - even in broad day light. As a tourist you do not want to get lost going to Pullman and you won't be spending your tourist dollars in the immediate Pullman area at hotels or restaurants. Perhaps you might stay in a downtown Chicago hotel or suburban lodgings, but neither of those do anything to revitalize the Pullman area. Slapping a designation on it neither helps preserve it nor helps revitalize the community. Very few jobs will be created and those that are will be at the bureaucrat level and not at the local level.

The Pullman story can be told many ways. You can check out the wonderfully restored "Sunbeam" in Manchester, VT or come on down to the Jersey Shore and visit the grounds (although totally redeveloped) that were once part of the Pullman family's summer home. You can tell the Porter story almost anywhere you want.

The interesting thing about Pullman, IL is that's where it all comes together. You have a trifecta of labor history, race relations and successful industry all represented in one place. Done right, Pullman, IL could be a national treasure. The trick is making it matter to the average person.

A similar NPS effort has (in my eyes) done a pretty good job in Lowell, MA. It is another place where labor went head to head with industry and from a visitors' perspective I think they do a pretty good job of explaining why events in Lowell were important.

I'd like to see more places where the tensions between industrial growth and labor are thoughtfully depicted. My friends at Steamtown have a tremendous opportunity to tell the story given Scranton's pivotal role as one of the major locales for the efforts of labor.

I doubt the Pullman, IL project will be perfect. In fact, one could safely bet it won't. The story that it can tell, however, is one that needs to be heard again and again. If that can be accomplished, even on a modest scale, it will be well worth the effort.

We can't have something like this at Homestead (it's all gone), so why not Pullman? If we don't make the effort to canonize the stories of the industrial revolution, we are likely to repeat the faults and overlook the essential truths.


Just my opinion.

Rob

Rob

I believe the same way you do. We need to save these areas and tell the story they represent so that they would never be forgotten. What we have today such as 8 hour days, weekends and safe work environments all came into fruition around the chicago area in both the stockyards and Pullman. Pullman (the only one still around) is an excellent example of this. The only problem with this was stated earlier and the fact is Pullman is one of the most dangerous parts of Chicago area for multiple reasons. So while yes I am excited for what is happening, I have to be honest in saying that, yes some people might travel to Pullman however, it will not be many.

The existing national parks only need a billion dollars of investment to take care of deferred maintenance and to bring them up to standards. So yeah, dump another site on them.

Aaaannnnndddd the political blow-back has begun.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-designate-3 ... itics.html



And, predictably, the political left is attacking those who question these designations; I anticipate seeing an accusation of "racism" any second now.....

Look, we can utter platitudes about "let's keep politics out of this discussion." But that is an utterly delusional approach, as stupid as saying "let's keep politics out of Congress and the White House." The entire process of such designations is nakedly political and often transparently partisan as well. Two of the three locations just named just oh-so-conveniently happen to be in places Obama has called home.

What does this mean for rail preservation?
As others have speculated, probably little to nothing, in the case of Pullman. My honest educated guess, based on the language being used in these press releases, is that railroading will be highlighted as much at this Pullman National Monument as subway trains are at sites commemorating the "Underground Railroad." The attention being paid of late to Pullman and its role in history--not just at this site as a monument, but also in several recent books covering the history of Pullman and the Pullman Company employees--is focused exclusively on the sociology and humanistic issues involved, with an emphasis--nay, all emphasis--on the conflicts and strife between labor and management, and a heavy hand on the racial issues involved. The technological and business history of the development, construction, and maintenance of sleeping cars and their services not only contributes next to nothing to the narratives most likely chosen to highlight this site, but it's more than likely to be viewed as an unwelcome distraction.

Having witnessed both fairly strained efforts to make park/site/museum interpretations "inclusive" and visitors willing to confront docents/rangers with antagonistic queries and "alternative historic" interpretations at more inocuous sites like the Grand Canyon, I fear that the promotion of Pullman as a national monument will ultimately serve long-term to stir more antagonism rather than promote healing or future historic understanding. These are the kind of issues that reduce rangers/docents to mere mute guards spouting only dates and names, rather than educators and interpreters.

I'd love to be proven wrong, of course.

We may say we want to "avoid politics" in rail preservation, but at the same time we want to enjoy Cass, the Cumbres & Toltec, three state-run railroad museums, Steamtown, etc., and others continue to demand the states or Feds step in and help save the East Broad Top, PRR 1361, numerous rail lines, etc. Playing the political game is in reality unavoidable, as much as many of us may want to remain fiercely independent or libertarian in rail preservation matters. And the fact remains that we do a rather awful job in promoting our causes in the political spectrum, as the success of Rails-to-Trails over the likes of the ATRRM or NARP will show. Rather than condemn something like Pullman for the political creature it is, it behooves us to learn the political system and how to work with, and within it. Jim Boyd and others had an uphill battle explaining to those who would listen that the establishment of Steamtown didn't "rob money" that would have gone to the EBT, C&TS, or other projects; the politicians, with their own agendas, effectively created the money for Steamtown that wasn't there before.

Well, lookie here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html



Dang those "politically correct" philanthropists and their political connections! </sarcasm>

Chicago has a history with public-private partnerships. Dearborn Park, a residential community constructed in the rail yards south of Dearborn Station was organized in the 1970s with support from Sears, Commonwealth Edison, the Catholic Archdiocese.

Closer to my home, the new Visitor Center at Gettysburg is another example of a public-private partnership in the National Park System.

Lowell National Park in Massachusetts is an example of a social history park, focused on the story of the changes in labor and technology in the textile industry.

All of these examples support the model of what is planned for Pullman.

Wesley

It is an important part of history, and as such it is a story that should be told. There may be no better place to tell it, especially given it grew from local interest and partnership in making it happen. Technology does not exist in a vacuum bereft of human design, construction and utility, so let's start with the humans and use the technology as the teaching aids they are - just the set for the play. It isn't an accident that the plays that tell stories in which the railroad rolling stock are in lead roles all have faces and voices....... people in metal clothing.

dave

You do realize that Penny Sue Pritzker is currently serving as the 38th United States Secretary of Commerce. Was one of the largest donors to the Presidents campaigns and the job was a reward for that. The President also needs to show he is doing "stuff" and Penny (an heir to the Pritzker fortune) can certainly help throw a few dollars to help them out. I would guess the lion share of these funds raised are Pritzker.

edited to add: The Pritzkers do have a rail connection having made fast fortunes out of the bankruptcy of railroads including The Milwaukee Road and The Rock Island Line. If memory serves me their company Marmon (now part of Berkshire Hathaway) also owned Union Tank Car.

This turned up on my Facebook page, and I thought it might be worthy to share here:

https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisHistor ... =1&theater

And the image in an alternate link for those who can't get Facebook to open properly:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 51ec5c9276

This is, for me, a remarkable image, giving me an idea of just how large this plant was. The overall appearance suggests that it had been expanded some even by the 1880s.

Equally interesting is the very large lumber storage area, which looks to be nearly the size of the area under roof! One wonders how many trees wound up in freight cars in the wood car era!

Sadly, only the circled segments remain today.

I forget when but, about a decade to two decades ago a fire started at Pullman which destroyed some of the buildings obviously not included in the map. So more of it was saved but, sadly it burned.

I think the difference is understanding that political connections are a way to get things done (like the examples you mentioned) vs. personal bickering over our own personal political peccadilloes. From the ISTEA funds that were a boon to preservation to a local tax break, it is all about politics. Not always the partisan left vs. right kind, but the local/regional "understand how to get things done" kind.

I am sure the Pullman project will generate partisan comments. What doesn't these days? The idea of honoring labor will rub some folks the wrong way. Even the slightest connection to Obama will rub folks the wrong way. So be it. We are entitled to our opinions.

If the end result is that the historic district gets needed preservation help, I am all for it. Generations after ours can figure out if Pullman, Lowell, Lattimer, River Rouge, Homestead, Ludlow, Triangle Shirt, et al are moments that really matter in the long run. We don't have to decide that. We can't decide that; we just need to make sure the memories and history exist so that others may make of them what they will.

Until a new system comes along, understanding how to play politics will continue to be a part of preservation.

Rob