It is currently Wed May 14, 2025 9:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Spray painting tech tips
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
RDGRAILFAN wrote:
look for a local VOTEC that offers evening classes in auto body painting, You can learn prep, mixing paint including the new water based paints.

WaterBORNE. These are paints which are still based on a solvent, but use water only as a “carrier” to get the paint from the gun to the automobile’s surface. It can't be water-BASED or it would wash off your car in the first rainstorm.

And good advice on spray handling, but keep in mind they’ll be teaching you all the subtle tricks of modern automotive paint, which doesn't apply to the more traditional stuff you'll put on a railroad car. Autopaint is rife with compromises you shouldn’t have to suffer or pay for.


Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
SUIT UP. Get those disposable body suits and USE THEM. Respirator and all. Even when it's like wearing a sauna. … The same stuff that makes catalyst paint last is the stuff that makes it all but impossible to come off of skin, hair, fingernails, etc. Nothing short of practically a bath and scrubbing in acetone (itself nasty stuff) will get the stuff off.

Oh, not even that! If it's on fingernails, you might as well go "goth" because you'll be stuck with it til you outgrow em. It sloughs off skin after a few days. Check with the paint manufacturer but clothes are often a good barrier and there isn’t need for a Tyvek moon suit. I generally spray with respirator and long sleeve shirt and gloves.

The other problem with a moon suit is neighbors. It will alarm them, they will think “Breaking Bad” or quite reasonably fear your chemicals will harm their children. That can blow back on you hard.

Quote:
I don't need to lecture you about inhalation hazards. The problem is, once you get good at it, they want you to do more of it (see also: cooking, cleaning, electrical work, etc.). Someone painting one antique car might get away with a bad day breathing the stuff, but not if you do it repeatedly.

Not just any respirator, the correct one for the paint. The solvent isn't good for you, but the more worrisome toxin is in the resin. People who do this everyday prefer to use an outside supplied air source, i.e. a 100 foot long tube pushing air into their mask.

The toxic-resin issue is circumvented by brushing. My druthers are to roll/tip everything, but failing that, spray Awlgrip primer (it shows stipple marks) and brush the topcoat (it does not).

Quote:
A related aside: no fewer than three of my rail associates have come down with bladder cancers. The tie: All three were model railroaders that did extensive airbrush painting of models.

And that was just common “oil paints”. Not even modern catalyst paints. Many of those tend to hurt you a different way: they burn your immune system. As you accumulate exposure, one of the earlier symptoms is allergy to the paint itself - your adventure will stop right there. This is a good reason to keep your exposure rate low and avoid a mega-hit that could leapfrog you into worse symptoms.


David Dewey wrote:
Very true, preparation is critical, elimination or stabilization of corrosion; where access doors exist, pre-finishing of the openings; cleaning (with de-greaser) of the surfaces (some modern finishes are VERY susceptible to failure from contaminants that older systems weren't troubled by);

Because alkyds use solvents which are reasonably compatible with engine oils, brush application can just fold it into the paint. 2-part paints use completely different solvents which are not compatible.

And yes, the job is 90% prep, whether you actually do it or not!

Quote:
and proper masking. Masking often takes more time than applying the finish! Speaking of masking, one should consider (on multi-color schemes) which colors to apply first…

Yes, the labor involved in masking has greatly informed my design of stencils. Before, I had a 1-2” margin around my stencils and spent hours trying to get them to lay flat and straight. Now I use lavish excesses of stencil to line up with fixed landmarks on the machine, e.g. hinges, window sills, handles etc. This makes fitting and aligning the stencil instant and foolproof, and greatly eases masking.

Dave wrote:
Of course, the other thing is you don't have to spray. You can get very good results using brush and roller painting with less environmental concerns… I... found a PPG water based industrial paint product that was applied by brush and roller and worked out very well, and has passed the test of time for about 20 years now.

Look for marine paints. They are brush-friendly because working ships are painted while underway, and it’s impossible to cordon off a large enough area to make spraying safe with catalyst paints. They are also very sensibly priced compared to automotive paints.

RDGRAILFAN wrote:
Solvent vs Water Based paints
I hope would be spray painters understand that solvent based paints are on a major phase out depending on the area you reside. it will be nationwide by 2017.
...body shops... water based paints… VOTEC… PPG instructors… local body painter… very different process...

Nope! Common misconception, you are talking about automotive paint, which does not affect railroad cars at all.

Each application is regulated differently. Housepaints and automotive paints are facing a lot of pressure. Governments are largely ignoring other areas, e.g. railroad cars. I know from which I speak since I paint historic railcars in the second strictest AQMD in the hemisphere.

For railroad cars you should be using an industrial or marine paint, ideally an LPU, and staying within your AQMD's VOC limits for railroad equipment, which will not get in your way unless you are very sloppy with solvents, or are in the SCAQMD (Los Angeles), or are using auto paint. For instance PA seems to be 800g/l for railroad cars, which is easy with Awlgrip.

To go into the gory details... Automotive coatings are #1 on the government hit list because a) they apply more paint (or more to the point, solvent) than everyone else put together. b) they use the most exotic and toxic chemistries. c) they use EXTREMELY high diluent (solvent) levels to get desirable paint effects and d) body shops are in residential areas and there’s no way their plume can’t affect neighbors and small children. That means the government has already been in there regulating emissions regardless of any VOC issue. So when it comes to VOC regulation, autopaints aren’t just “a" low hanging fruit, they are “the” low hanging fruit. Architectural coatings are also targeted because they are easy: they switched to latex 30 years ago. After that, writing regulations gets hard: every industry must be carefully analyzed, public hearings, manufacturer lobbying, round and round - all for comparatively little VOC gains. The law of diminishing returns quickly takes effect. So for smaller applications like refinery paints, locomotives, marine and the like, they often just plaster up limits like 800g/l which are easy to meet with sensible use of existing products.

This is nothing against the skill of those auto painters able to work with the ultra-low-VOC concoctions. That skill is just not needed in railway preservation.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 343 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: